Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)

Started by bhodges, January 03, 2008, 09:35:19 AM

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snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 18, 2012, 09:53:08 AM
New Messiaen orchestral recording coming out...

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Wow,... WHY did I pull out the Boulez/DG for listening today? :o Interesting!

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on June 18, 2012, 03:09:22 PM
Wow,... WHY did I pull out the Boulez/DG for listening today? :o Interesting!

Ha!

Here's the previous Markl Naxos Messiaen release:

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DieNacht

#282


Messiaen: 20 Regards / Oliveira-Carvalho / vox 3 LP

Not music it is easy to like - at times sounding more as "Live Report From A Blacksmith´s Workshop" or "Fumbling With Home-Made Carpentry Stuff ...", if one is allowed to say it ... But for a new-comer, some of the slow movements have an austere beauty. Bought this because I liked Oliveira´s "Catalogue d´Oiseaux". Loriod´s mono version of "20 Regards" on the Vega label at times seems better (No.1), but Oliveira is good later on (No.5, for instance).

The trick to appreciate this music is probably to try to explore how central motifs appear and are varied throughout the work.
And remember the year of composition: 1944.

Leo K.



I recently (had the good luck) to aquire this gigantic box, and as a Messiaen newbie, I'm not sure where to start!

Any ideas?

8)


bhodges

Wow, 32 discs - that's quite a set. If you're in a mood for small, try the Quartet for the End of Time or Le merle noir for flute and piano; if you feel like larger forces, the Turangalîla-Symphonie (1946-1948) is arguably his most famous orchestral work and very representative of his style.

Would probably save the opera, Saint François d'Assise, for later; it's over five hours and to me, requires a great deal of concentration. Ditto the keyboard works, unless you are a big keyboard fan. That said, I do think his organ music - especially - is some of the best ever created for the instrument; Livre du Saint Sacrement is pretty monumental.

--Bruce

lescamil

The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to go chronologically, going through all the various genres. Lucky for you, Messiaen's earliest works are rather short and there is quite a bit of chamber music, such as the Theme and Variations for Violin and Piano and the 8 Piano Preludes. Just go from there all the way to the Concert à Quatre and you'll really get a sense of the breadth of Messiaen's genius.
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Leo K.

Thanks for your ideas gentleman!

I think I'll start with Turangalîla-Symphonie  8)


early grey

You'll find a famous recording of the Turangalila Symphony here

          http://www.cliveheathmusic.co.uk/tapes.php

from the BBC Symphony Orchestra conducted by Charles Groves with John Ogdon (Piano) and Jeanne Loriod (Ondes Martenot)
Broadcast from the Albert Hall, Wednesday 6 August 1969. Enjoy!

calyptorhynchus

I enjoy the works of Messiaen that I know, mainly the works inspired by bird-song. As you can guess from my picture I'm a keen bird-watcher.

I do think, however, that Messiaen's works aren't always well conceived for listeners. For example I have always thought that his Catalogue d'oiseaux would be better off orchestrated. It's a mistake to have one instrument playing both the scenery and the bird songs. If the orchestral strings played the scenery music and a solo piano (or piano and other solo instruments) played the bird song, it would be a lot easier to follow. (I've heard many of the birds that Messiaen includes in the wild, but I still get lost in the pieces).

The other thing I've always wanted is a performance of Turangalia without the ondes martenot, such an unpleasant instrument. If we could have a performance where the part for that instrument is played by an  instrument of unusual timbre, like a viola d'amore (and all the chromatic glissandi omitted), I think the piece would be better for it.
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

Tsaraslondon

#289
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on January 19, 2013, 12:46:09 AM

The other thing I've always wanted is a performance of Turangalia without the ondes martenot, such an unpleasant instrument. If we could have a performance where the part for that instrument is played by an  instrument of unusual timbre, like a viola d'amore (and all the chromatic glissandi omitted), I think the piece would be better for it.


That's rather like saying "I don't much like the sound of the viola, so maybe someone do a performance of Harold en Italie, where the viola part is played by something else?"

Messaien loved the Ondes Martenot and composed for it quite a lot (there are three of them in his opera St Francois d'Assis). I doubt he'd have much truck with a performance that replaced it. Like it or not, the sound of the instrument is woven into the fabric of the score and adds quite a lot to its particular tinta.


\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Leo K.

Quote from: sanantonio on January 20, 2013, 02:39:05 AM
I recently watched this film about Messiaen and recommend it to anyone who wishes to expand their appreciation of this composer.

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Thanks for the tip, I shall seek and find!

marvinbrown



  Messiaen fans! Figured I'd bump this thread! I just finished listening to the 17CD (the 18th CD is an interview) boxset below.  This was my first encounter with this composer's music.  Messiaen's music is quite possibly the most surreal music I have ever heard! But when in "locks in", as it did with the Petites Esquisses D'oiseaux and Catalogue D'oiseaux  a surreal sound world is created that is quite captivating! Listening in the dark Messiaen's birds came to life in a sound world only he could create. I really enjoyed those piano compositions.

I was not however particularly fond of the piano solo vocal works, the Poems pour Mi. I think those went over my head,  perhaps I was expecting them to be more "lyrical"......yes I know a mistake when considering the other compositions!  In addition I was unmoved by the organ works. Is anyone here a fan of the Organ works and the Poems pour Mi?

  The orchestral compostions, especially the Couleurs de la Cite Celeste are stunning! I felt like I was floating in the air, on a cloud, in a sci-fi world far removed from the one we live in.

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  marvin

Mirror Image

My favorite Messiaen work is L'ascension. For me, it doesn't get much more beautiful than this, but I really enjoy his early work anyway. His later work not so much.

lescamil

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 26, 2013, 09:50:28 AM
My favorite Messiaen work is L'ascension. For me, it doesn't get much more beautiful than this, but I really enjoy his early work anyway. His later work not so much.

The later work can take a bit more time, listening, and reflection, but I ultimately find it more rewarding. Just watch his St. François d'Assise. It is the closest thing to a religious experience in music. That was his magnum opus, and it really sounds it.
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Mirror Image

Quote from: lescamil on March 27, 2013, 02:04:00 PM
The later work can take a bit more time, listening, and reflection, but I ultimately find it more rewarding. Just watch his St. François d'Assise. It is the closest thing to a religious experience in music. That was his magnum opus, and it really sounds it.

I'll pass. Thanks, but no thanks.

meloaku

#295
My favourite version of Quartet of the end of time is the following:
Messiaen: Quatuor Pour La Fin Du Temps[Import] Quatuor Olivier Messiaen.
I find it compelling and delicate.

marvinbrown



  Messiaen fans I am still struggling with Messiaen's organ works.  I just can't seem to connect with the spirituality conveyed in these compositions .  Worst yet, I tend to lose concentration and then interest far too easily.  :(

  marvin

DaveF

Just bought the 10-CD Boulez/Chung box, worst CD cover and all (£24 on eBay, very nice) and found a work I'd not only never heard but never even heard of - the Concert à Quatre.  What a lovely, peaceful, sweet swansong.  Is it just my ears, or is the theme of the Rondeau a very close relative of "I've got no strings" from Disney's Pinocchio?

DF
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

Octave

Does anyone strongly suggest one recording of Oiseaux exotiques (1955-56) above others?  For the moment I know of only two, one from Donohoe and De Leeuw with the Netherlands Wind Ensemble (Chandos) and one with Loriod and Boulez with the Intercontemporain (Naive/Montaigne).  I'm sure Loriod is tough to beat, but I still thought I'd ask, especially if there's an ace recording elsewhere I haven't seen.

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amw

#299
Quote from: marvinbrown on April 04, 2013, 03:08:11 AM

  Messiaen fans I am still struggling with Messiaen's organ works.  I just can't seem to connect with the spirituality conveyed in these compositions .  Worst yet, I tend to lose concentration and then interest far too easily.  :(

  marvin

Oddly, I've never warmed to Messiaen's organ music either—the piano works (incl also Preludes, Etudes de rythme, Visions de l'amen & Cantéyodjayâ) and Cinq rechants remain favourites. I think I like the orchestral music most of all, though; it may actually be my favourite 20th century music for orchestra (I'm thinking in particular of Des canyons aux étoiles and Éclairs sur l'au-delà, both about 90 minutes long but can be listened to in chunks if an overdose makes your teeth hurt), though Ligeti, Lachenmann, Dillon and of course Bartók are also on the shortlist.

But then I often have difficulty with organ music, apart from Bach and maybe Sweelinck. So maybe I'm not the most reliable source.

@ Octave I have the one from the 80th birthday concert which is ... *googles furiously* ... actually the same as your Boulez/Loriod one, just with a less purple cover


It's pretty good.

:\

/edit - As far as the piano music in general goes, apart from Loriod I think most of the recordings from the terrible trio (Aimard, Henck, Schleiermacher) are worth checking out as well. And I remember being more impressed than I expected to be with Angela Hewitt's Messiaen disc, though I think she has just the one, anyway.