Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)

Started by bhodges, January 03, 2008, 09:35:19 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

amw

Quote from: Ken B on May 10, 2014, 09:08:38 PM
It's better than Des Canyon aux Etoiles ...

I like Des Canyons aux Étoiles. And Éclairs sur l'au-dela. :(

Actually I think I like those two better than the Turangalîla-Symphonie for whatever reason. Less repetitive, perhaps.

EigenUser

Quote from: amw on May 10, 2014, 09:19:37 PM
I like Des Canyons aux Étoiles. And Éclairs sur l'au-dela. :(

Actually I think I like those two better than the Turangalîla-Symphonie for whatever reason. Less repetitive, perhaps.
Ohh, I've been meaning to hear "Des Canyons..." for a while. Listening to "Eclairs..." right now.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 10, 2014, 08:51:15 PM
I just think it's a huge mammoth piece [...]
It's THIS big:


Last night I was looking through the Messiaen board. I had to resurrect (no pun intended!) this (from page 3):
Quote
Messiaen could write a piece called 12 meditations on the epiphany of the glorious ressurection of the mystical cabbages of God LOL or he could call it Symphony No. 3 [...]
That made me laugh. I think he did write a piece with that title.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Ken B

Quote from: EigenUser on May 11, 2014, 06:01:44 PM
Ohh, I've been meaning to hear "Des Canyons..." for a while. Listening to "Eclairs..." right now.
It's THIS big:


Last night I was looking through the Messiaen board. I had to resurrect (no pun intended!) this (from page 3):That made me laugh. I think he did write a piece with that title.
So your taste for the gob-smackingly humongous doesn't extend to titles?
8)

EigenUser

Quote from: Ken B on May 11, 2014, 06:14:48 PM
So your taste for the gob-smackingly humongous doesn't extend to titles?
8)
What gives you the idea that it doesn't? I love elaborate titles!
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Ken B

Quote from: EigenUser on May 11, 2014, 06:21:31 PM
What gives you the idea that it doesn't? I love elaborate titles!
Then I suggest "Never will beat La Mer in a poll" as a new name for ...
:)

snyprrr

I found love for 'Turangalila' through Nagano on Teldec. Maybe it's the sound?

'Canyons' with Chung (DG)... well, the piece IS somewhat like planetarium music, but I can deal with it. Sure, lots of Messy-Anns work contains huge vats of 'lingering'. hmm...

'Eclairs' with Rattle (EMI). Again, maybe it's the recording,... but, there are quite some cool bits for me here.

Just pick your Messy-Ann carefully and only listen when you're sure you're going to enjoy it. Maybe I'll take 'Turangalila' for a spin later on this beautiful day...

EigenUser

Here's a rather hilarious and priceless video of the composer of "Turangalila-Symphonie" imitating bird-calls:
http://www.youtube.com/v/9QdgUJss9BU
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

snyprrr

Quote from: EigenUser on May 14, 2014, 06:21:24 PM
Here's a rather hilarious and priceless video of the composer of "Turangalila-Symphonie" imitating bird-calls:
http://www.youtube.com/v/9QdgUJss9BU

wow, very animated, surprising! interesting

oo-ee oo-ee oo-ee

MishaK

#328
Quote from: snyprrr on May 12, 2014, 08:09:47 AM
Messy-Ann

Actually, the proper pronunciation is Messy-ah-ungh. That's how Aimard pronounces it. He should know.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: MishaK on May 14, 2014, 06:54:08 PM
Actually, the proper pronunciation is Messy-ah-ungh, due to the two dots on the ë, which separate the syllables.

Hm, French Wiki doesn't show any two dots:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivier_Messiaen

While we're at it, can anyone compare the virtues of the Chung and Rattle recordings of Eclairs?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

snyprrr

Quote from: Velimir on May 15, 2014, 07:51:02 AM
Hm, French Wiki doesn't show any two dots:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivier_Messiaen

While we're at it, can anyone compare the virtues of the Chung and Rattle recordings of Eclairs?

I ended up picking Rattle after that question was asked the last time. I don't remember the exchange, but it ended with Rattle. Chung is Chung, but Rattle is Rattle and has Berlin! I used to have Chung back in the day, but I can tell you that there are delicious Berlin moments in the EMI.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Thanks, I've got the Chung already, but I want to get a different view of this piece. It's certainly vast enough to justify it.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

MishaK

Sorry, I dreamt the two dots. In any case, that's how it's pronounced apparently.

Mandryka

#333
Quote from: petrarch on May 10, 2014, 05:46:13 AM
Check pages 212-224 of the following: https://circle.ubc.ca/bitstream/handle/2429/4771/ubc_1996-091554.pdf?sequence=1



OM's notes are proving to be useful when I'm listening to performances. Does I sound like a commentary on Matthew 3 17 (This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased)? Is II full of mysterious echos of ancient tunes? Is III readable as a commentary on "O marvelous exchange! Man's Creator has become man, born of the Virgin. We have been made sharers in the divinity of Christ who humbled himself to share in our humanity."(From the Little Office of the Virgin Mary)?

I'm sure that many pianists play it casually, romantically. Just doing what they feel like. One pianist who is proving to be interesting because he's clearly taken into account OM's ideas about how to play it is Anton Batagov. And, as with Bach, when you play it like the composer intended you get a better performance.

Another aspect to this is Loriod, whose performances are a bit brutal and pointalist. Simetimes she makes me think of Sciarrino. The reason she can't be ignored is that she had special access to OM's intentions - and she recorded it several times, so I guess she must have felt she had something to say.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

By the way, re Loriod's 20 Regards, here are links to what I think are all three recordings. Can someone verify?

Erato (last)
http://open.spotify.com/album/1oPMiSPgxZxEpdbbTOIeIo

Ades
http://open.spotify.com/album/51TyEG7OJsc4M54u7n9Au9

Wega (First)
http://open.spotify.com/album/27GlXJH0H92GrbF0Fqrbi1

I like the Ades the most I think.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Joaquimhock

Quote from: Velimir on May 15, 2014, 07:51:02 AM
Hm, French Wiki doesn't show any two dots:



The actual prononciation by a native speaker can be found here: http://fr.forvo.com/word/olivier_messiaen/#fr
"Dans la vie il faut regarder par la fenêtre"

Joaquimhock

Quote from: MishaK on May 14, 2014, 06:54:08 PM
Actually, the proper pronunciation is Messy-ah-ungh. That's how Aimard pronounces it. He should know.

When he speaks English Aimard "tries" to have a British accent.... ;-)
"Dans la vie il faut regarder par la fenêtre"

Ken B

Quote from: Joaquimhock on May 16, 2014, 07:13:43 AM
The actual prononciation by a native speaker can be found here: http://fr.forvo.com/word/olivier_messiaen/#fr
Coincidentally exactly how I pronounce it. ;)
I guess those years in French class were not a complete waste!  :)

Mr Bloom

Quote from: Joaquimhock on May 16, 2014, 07:13:43 AM
The actual prononciation by a native speaker can be found here: http://fr.forvo.com/word/olivier_messiaen/#fr
This is how I've always heard it pronounced in France.

EigenUser

I tend to say the last syllable as a nasal 'engh', i.e. Messia-engh instead of Messiae-ungh (as it is pronounced in the demonstration posted). From what I've heard, they tend to do this in southern France (the southern French accent is a little bit more nasal-sounding).
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".