Charles Villiers Stanford

Started by tjguitar, May 19, 2007, 09:06:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kyjo

#120
Quote from: Albion on April 18, 2023, 08:55:22 AMAgreed, much as I love Brahms he never seems to get his kerjangers going. Compare with Dvorak and Tchaikovsky...

Well, to be fair it depends on the piece (and the performance). Sure, if we're talking about his Clarinet Quintet, for example, it's a beautiful work but rather lacking in dynamism. But take the finales of the 3rd and 4th symphonies or the scherzo of the Piano Quintet, for instance - some of the most viscerally thrilling music composed in the 19th century IMO!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

kyjo

Quote from: Brian on April 19, 2023, 11:50:01 AMI do think there is a pattern/trend of Brahms conducting that sells his vitality short. If people go too far down the "autumnal" road of interpretation, they can ignore some of the physicality that his music is full of.

100% agree!!!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Franco_Manitobain

Quote from: kyjo on May 08, 2023, 08:56:22 AMWell, to be fair it depends on the piece (and the performance). Sure, if we're talking about his Clarinet Quintet, for example, it's a beautiful work but rather lacking in dynamism. But take the finales of the 3rd and 4th symphonies or the scherzo of the Piano Quintet, for instance - some of the most viscerally thrilling music composed in the 19th century IMO!

Apologies on the derailment of this thread (perhaps some to this can be transferred over to the Brahms' thread), but I agree with you.  In fact, I cannot think of a more brash and extroverted work than his 1st Piano Concerto!

Albion

What a lovely work the Requiem is although not as wonderful or structurally intriguing as the Stabat Mater (a "Symphonic Cantata"), Op.96. What Brabbins gains in vigour and a more reverberant recording he occasionally loses in clarity, what Leaper gains in breadth he occasionally loses a sense of intimacy in a dry acoustic. Both are fully viable interpretations...
A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Albion on May 10, 2023, 12:41:18 PMWhat a lovely work the Requiem is although not as wonderful or structurally intriguing as the Stabat Mater (a "Symphonic Cantata"), Op.96. What Brabbins gains in vigour and a more reverberant recording he occasionally loses in clarity, what Leaper gains in breadth he occasionally loses a sense of intimacy in a dry acoustic. Both are fully viable interpretations...

Exactly so - perfectly put.

Maestro267

Brabbins recorded the Stanford Requiem? I thought the only recording of that was on Marco Polo/Naxos.

Roasted Swan

QuoteBrabbins recorded the Stanford Requiem? I thought the only recording of that was on Marco Polo/Naxos.



new release this month.  On balance "better" than the earlier version.

Albion

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 11, 2023, 06:04:54 AM

new release this month.  On balance "better" than the earlier version.

I'm still totally p*ssed off that the bun-fight in London ("Clap hands, here comes Charlie!") meant the cancellation of Adrian Partington's concert in Cardiff which was to have featured the Op.66 Te Deum and the Op.24 "Elegiac Ode" due for recording by Lyrita. As far as I know, it's not been rescheduled...

 ::)
A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

Albion

It's easy to overlook recordings on small labels, but don't miss Stanford's Mass in G, Op.46 (1892) on a similar scale to Dvorak's contemporary Mass in D and just as enjoyable. It is on EM Records (EMR CD021). George de Voil does an excellent job with his forces and there's no problem with the soloists or chorus, although the strings are sometimes a bit recessed...

A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

Albion

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 11, 2023, 06:04:54 AM

Pleasing to see that it is No.1 in the current Specialist Classical Chart and is a "Gramophone" Editor's Choice...

;D
A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

Albion

Also worth seeking out is a great disc by The King's Consort on the Vivat label (VIVAT 101) which gives you excellent performances of Stanford's own orchestrations of his Magnificat and Nunc dimittis settings in A, G, B flat and C. You also get great performances of Parry's "I was glad" in the 1911 version ("Vivat Regina Maria" and "Vivat Rex Georgius"), his wonderful 1911 "Coronation Te Deum", "Blest Pair of Sirens" and "Jerusalem" in Elgar's orchestration...

A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Albion on May 15, 2023, 01:52:59 AMAlso worth seeking out is a great disc by The King's Consort on the Vivat label (VIVAT 101) which gives you excellent performances of Stanford's own orchestrations of his Magnificat and Nunc dimittis settings in A, G, B flat and C. You also get great performances of Parry's "I was glad" in the 1911 version ("Vivat Regina Maria" and "Vivat Rex Georgius"), his wonderful 1911 "Coronation Te Deum", "Blest Pair of Sirens" and "Jerusalem" in Elgar's orchestration...



For general information - this is all performed on  period instruments.  Although it includes no Stanford (sorry thread) Paul McCreesh's "An English Coronation, 1902-1953" on 2 discs is very impressive in terms of sound and scale.  I'm not sure if the Gabrielli players use period instruments too?  They play at modern pitch so probably not.


Albion

#132
The "Gramophone" review of the new Hyperion recording of the Requiem:

While much of Stanford's large-scale music suffered increasing neglect after his death in 1924, his Requiem, commissioned for the Birmingham Festival in 1897, enjoyed a modest degree of attention during the rest of the 20th century. Boult performed it with the BBC Symphony Orchestra in 1944 and Boris Ord at Cambridge in 1952 during the centenary of Stanford's birth. During the 1970s it attracted the attention of Raymond Leppard, who believed (perhaps somewhat conjecturally) that the Benedictus influenced the nature of Elgar's 'Enigma' theme, though this speculative connection (which found its way into an article in The Times on August 20, 1977) was backed up by the fact that Elgar heard Stanford play through his work at Birchwood in 1897 before its first public performance. Since then the work has received a fair number of hearings, both here (I also heard a fine performance of the work by the York Musical Society under Philip Moore some years ago) and abroad.

Dedicated to the memory of Lord Leighton, a close friend, the Requiem emanated from Stanford's instincts for dramatic music. By 1897 he had completed five operas, the last of which, Shamus O'Brien (1896), had enjoyed immense success in London, on tours around the UK, on Broadway, in Chicago and in Sydney; and previous choral works such as The Three Holy Children (1885), The Revenge (1886), Eden (1891) and The Voyage of Maeldune (1892) had also shown a conspicuous predisposition for the theatrical. With the precedents of Requiems by Verdi (who knew Stanford's score and admired it) and Dvořák (also commissioned by Birmingham in 1891), not to mention Alfred Bruneau's Requiem (now much neglected), which The Bach Choir performed in 1895, Stanford was well placed to conceive the large-scale symphonic structure of his work and it was this aspect that caught the audience's imagination when it was first performed. The ambience of the operatic nature of the Requiem is further enhanced by the presence of four prominent soloists (Stanford was later to emulate this model in the Te Deum, Op 66, the Stabat mater, Op 96, and the Mass Via Victrix, Op 173) who, as 'characters' in the drama, all perform on this recording with a sense of authority and commitment. Indeed, the soloists are spoilt for choice when it comes to the rich solo material – the sizeable tripartite structure of the Introit, Kyrie and Gradual, the gripping multi-movement sequence of the Dies irae (which puts Dvořák's in the shade), the euphonious Benedictus and, for me, the most moving of all, the Agnus Dei, in which the closing 'Lux aeterna' is one of the composer's greatest creations (I often have a lump in my throat at this point when the tenor enters).

Brabbins, who truly understands the language of this music, judges the tempos and balance of the ensemble with instinctive sensitivity; his handling of the chorus – the University of Birmingham Voices – is outstanding, and he genuinely brings out the luminosity of Stanford's lustrous orchestration, which is splendidly executed by the CBSO, especially in the lovely solos of the Dies irae, the arresting climax of the 'Lacrimosa', the swirling Rhinegold-like figurations of the Sanctus and the solemn funeral cortege of the Agnus (perhaps a depiction of Leighton's funeral and interment at St Paul's Cathedral). The chorus sing throughout with a youthful clarity, beauty of tone and lovely intonation. However, if I had to pick out moments of particular deftness, they would be the simple but captivating homophony of the Introit and Agnus, the arresting opening of the 'Domine Jesu Christe' and the agility of the inventive fugue in the Offertorium ('Quam olim Abrahae'), the gossamer textures of the Sanctus (which is like Undine emerging from the lake) and the grandeur of the choral responses to the soloists in the 'Lux aeterna'.

In 1997 the Requiem was issued by Marco Polo in a recording with the RTÉ Philharmonic Choir and National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland under Colman Pearce. This was a most welcome recording at the time, but there is much more to learn about Stanford's choral masterpiece from the more cohesive architecture, sound and élan of this vibrant new issue from Hyperion. For anyone interested in British choral music of the period, it is a must!


A great and unusually informed review, despite a slip ("The Voyage of Maeldune" is 1889). This should ensure that this splendid work gets the proper attention that it deserves, although I think that his choral masterpiece remains the Stabat Mater...

 ;D
A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

kyjo

Quote from: Albion on May 18, 2023, 06:29:31 AMThe "Gramophone" review of the new Hyperion recording of the Requiem:

While much of Stanford's large-scale music suffered increasing neglect after his death in 1924, his Requiem, commissioned for the Birmingham Festival in 1897, enjoyed a modest degree of attention during the rest of the 20th century. Boult performed it with the BBC Symphony Orchestra in 1944 and Boris Ord at Cambridge in 1952 during the centenary of Stanford's birth. During the 1970s it attracted the attention of Raymond Leppard, who believed (perhaps somewhat conjecturally) that the Benedictus influenced the nature of Elgar's 'Enigma' theme, though this speculative connection (which found its way into an article in The Times on August 20, 1977) was backed up by the fact that Elgar heard Stanford play through his work at Birchwood in 1897 before its first public performance. Since then the work has received a fair number of hearings, both here (I also heard a fine performance of the work by the York Musical Society under Philip Moore some years ago) and abroad.

Dedicated to the memory of Lord Leighton, a close friend, the Requiem emanated from Stanford's instincts for dramatic music. By 1897 he had completed five operas, the last of which, Shamus O'Brien (1896), had enjoyed immense success in London, on tours around the UK, on Broadway, in Chicago and in Sydney; and previous choral works such as The Three Holy Children (1885), The Revenge (1886), Eden (1891) and The Voyage of Maeldune (1892) had also shown a conspicuous predisposition for the theatrical. With the precedents of Requiems by Verdi (who knew Stanford's score and admired it) and Dvořák (also commissioned by Birmingham in 1891), not to mention Alfred Bruneau's Requiem (now much neglected), which The Bach Choir performed in 1895, Stanford was well placed to conceive the large-scale symphonic structure of his work and it was this aspect that caught the audience's imagination when it was first performed. The ambience of the operatic nature of the Requiem is further enhanced by the presence of four prominent soloists (Stanford was later to emulate this model in the Te Deum, Op 66, the Stabat mater, Op 96, and the Mass Via Victrix, Op 173) who, as 'characters' in the drama, all perform on this recording with a sense of authority and commitment. Indeed, the soloists are spoilt for choice when it comes to the rich solo material – the sizeable tripartite structure of the Introit, Kyrie and Gradual, the gripping multi-movement sequence of the Dies irae (which puts Dvořák's in the shade), the euphonious Benedictus and, for me, the most moving of all, the Agnus Dei, in which the closing 'Lux aeterna' is one of the composer's greatest creations (I often have a lump in my throat at this point when the tenor enters).

Brabbins, who truly understands the language of this music, judges the tempos and balance of the ensemble with instinctive sensitivity; his handling of the chorus – the University of Birmingham Voices – is outstanding, and he genuinely brings out the luminosity of Stanford's lustrous orchestration, which is splendidly executed by the CBSO, especially in the lovely solos of the Dies irae, the arresting climax of the 'Lacrimosa', the swirling Rhinegold-like figurations of the Sanctus and the solemn funeral cortege of the Agnus (perhaps a depiction of Leighton's funeral and interment at St Paul's Cathedral). The chorus sing throughout with a youthful clarity, beauty of tone and lovely intonation. However, if I had to pick out moments of particular deftness, they would be the simple but captivating homophony of the Introit and Agnus, the arresting opening of the 'Domine Jesu Christe' and the agility of the inventive fugue in the Offertorium ('Quam olim Abrahae'), the gossamer textures of the Sanctus (which is like Undine emerging from the lake) and the grandeur of the choral responses to the soloists in the 'Lux aeterna'.

In 1997 the Requiem was issued by Marco Polo in a recording with the RTÉ Philharmonic Choir and National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland under Colman Pearce. This was a most welcome recording at the time, but there is much more to learn about Stanford's choral masterpiece from the more cohesive architecture, sound and élan of this vibrant new issue from Hyperion. For anyone interested in British choral music of the period, it is a must!


A great and unusually informed review, despite a slip ("The Voyage of Maeldune" is 1889). This should ensure that this splendid work gets the proper attention that it deserves, although I think that his choral masterpiece remains the Stabat Mater...

 ;D

It kinda annoyed me that this reviewer felt the need to take a swipe at Dvorak's Requiem (an underrated masterpiece in my view) in order to "elevate" the Stanford. Granted, I haven't heard Stanford's Requiem yet, but I can't imagine it being a greater work than Dvorak's... ::)
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

kyjo

#134
A couple months ago, I listened to this disc with much pleasure:



The infrequently-mentioned 4th Symphony can easily stand with Stanford's two other finest efforts in the genre IMO (the 3rd and 6th). The outer movements show Stanford at his most unbuttoned and Dvorakian, and the main theme of the first movement is particularly confident and memorable. The Brahmsian-intermezzo-like 2nd movement is a bit of a low-key affair, but the ensuing slow movement is (surprisingly) dramatic and even tragic in places.

The Irish Rhapsody no. 6 for violin and orchestra is a throughly charming and folksy concoction, as one would expect, not reveling in the dramatic and coloristic effects of the magnificent 2nd and 4th rhapsodies. And the Prelude to Oedipus Rex encapsulates the same vein of semi-tragic nobility than infuses the slow movement of the 4th Symphony. An all-around wonderful Stanford disc!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

JBS

#135
Quote from: kyjo on May 27, 2023, 09:19:22 AMIt kinda annoyed me that this reviewer felt the need to take a swipe at Dvorak's Requiem (an underrated masterpiece in my view) in order to "elevate" the Stanford. Granted, I haven't heard Stanford's Requiem yet, but I can't imagine it being a greater work than Dvorak's... ::)

I listened to the Hyperion recording for the first time yesterday (NB I've never heard the Requiem before).
It struck me as a big High Romantic work, but my attention strayed more than a few times.

ETA

Listening again
Attention wanders from time to time, but less than yesterday.
It's more somber and reflective than most settings of the Requiem, especially in the Sequence (Dies Irae).

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Albion

Great news that the "Elegiac Ode" and the Op.66 Te Deum HAVE been recorded for Lyrita, despite the cancellation of the concert in Cardiff...

https://www.thestanfordsociety.org/2023/05/30/a-note-from-the-chairman-may-2023/

 8)
A piece is worth your attention, and is itself for you praiseworthy, if it makes you feel you have not wasted your time over it. (SG, 1922)

lordlance

Quote from: Luke on April 23, 2023, 11:13:46 PMBut even narrowing down to those three pieces - Nocturnes/Images/Daphnis - it's still an inaccurate description. The Nocturnes are two slow pieces enclosing a fast one. Daphnis is shot through with orgiastic, energetic dances. And Iberia - the biggest, most ambitious of the Images - is a slow movement in between two highly eventful, colourful, exciting and energetic fast movements. The truth is Debussy specialised in these highly refined, sensuous and evanescent textures which you describe, but they are only one part of his pallete. Indeed, looking at his work as a whole, rather than just the orchestral pieces from his 'impressionist' years which you describe, those (glorious) hedonistic moments are put into even more perspective. Think of the late Sonatas, or the Etudes, for instance. Ravel, in the meantime, is a different composer entirely, with more bittersweet piquancy and demonic drive than Debussy. Though there are fabulous slow movements aplenty they are always balanced out by something bubbling over with fantastic energy. For every Le Gibet there is a Scarbo, for every La vallee des cloches there is an Alborado del Grazioso.

Hello again after 6 months. I hadn't forgotten. Just hadn't gotten round to trying more of Ravel/Debussy.  A few thoughts:

1. Tried Pelleas extracts (Abbado/BPO) and gave up 4 minutes in. Another example of sensuousness and atmospheric sounds being the end-goal. This isn't some sort of scathing critique BTW. This is an aesthetic. Just incredibly boring one for me.
2. I tried only Fetes from Nocturnes. Yes I suppose I got a minute of music that's somewhat propulsive but surrounded by 5 minutes of music preoccupied with sounding very beautiful.
3. Some other pieces reflect earlier remarks - Ravel Pavane, Debussy Images Iberia I.

Not all Ravel and Debussy is bad of course. I sort of like La mer and Albardo. La valse is good fun. Ravel's best is of course Pictures' orchestration. A masterpiece.
If you are interested in listening to orchestrations of solo/chamber music, you might be interested in this thread.
Also looking for recommendations on neglected conductors thread.

Scion7

And meanwhile, back in England, there was a composer named Charles Villiers Stanford ...
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."