Maximianno Cobra's Beethoven Symphonies and Theory

[m_gigena]

she got a lot of attention in the 80s with her very special "theories" about "rediscovering the slowness" in music. And not just in music, in life as well.
In her case, her "revelations" come sprinkled with a lot of pseudo-philosophical BS about how our lives have become too fast and too hectic since the industrial revolution in the 19th century,

Slowlifers... In my city they appear as mid-to-top-range-high-income executives who claim to have been burnt out by their stressful fast food life. So they move to a $ 500,000  (USD) house in a private country club located in the suburbs, purchase one car for each family member so that they can commute, and play local golf on sundays with other stressed execs, that only eat organic food. Their clubs show logos like this one:




Aeschbacher played Brahms second concerto in 40 minutes. There's a Rubinstein recording of the same work that lasts 42 minutes. Heifetz delivered Brahms Op. 77 in 34 minutes (the fastest recording available, followed, I think, by Szigeti-Harty). Cortot and Backhaus would play Chopin's Opp.10 and 25 in 53 minutes. Munch recorded Tchaikovsky's first concerto with Kostia Konstantinoff in 26 minutes (with a cut in the cadenza). I don't think there's ground for any claims about how fast the music is played nowadays.

[PSmith08]

BTW, it's not even his theory. A few people before him came up with similar nonsense about the "real meaning" of the metronome markings, like the German pianist Grete Wehmeyer.

I thought most performers/conductors took Beethoven's metronome markings with a grain of salt. Though, I didn't know that anyone was so serious - I admit I skimmed Mr. Cobra's article - about ignoring them to cut them in half. The whole business, in most cases, strikes me as the final revenge of the intellect upon art (pace Sontag): what if Beethoven's markings are what he really, really wanted - and he knew well how to operate a metronome? I don't know that that was the case, but it's an interesting thought-experiment. The problem, then, is not with Beethoven, it's with us.

You already get that effect from some of the more serious interpreters who chose slow tempi because they feel they have a lot to say and in whose cases that is actually true, like, for Beethoven's 9th, Böhm in his last recording or Celibidache, or for the 3rd, Giulini's remarkably slow but very musical LA recording.

I agree with that. Böhm's final record, while slow, serves to emphasize and illuminate, rather than trash the architecture and flow.

[m_gigena]

I agree with that. Böhm's final record, while slow, serves to emphasize and illuminate, rather than trash the architecture and flow.

Just how I feel about Pogorelich.

[Iconito]

I think Cobra's attempt is a valid one (that can also be perfected), as long as you see it as a means of education on the work. I don't think anyone can sit and listen to the whole recording, but if there are some tidbits you want to explore further this video can help doing that.

That pedagogic effect (¡Hola, Manu! Tanto tiempo...) can be achieved by other means. The soundtouch dsp plug-in for foobar2000 is my favorite; but I guess there are others. You can slow down your Furtwängler (without altering the pitch) in order to better grasp the details, or speed it up to recognize the structures more easily. Tweaking the tempo this way is like zooming in and out an image. (you can also alter the pitch without altering tempo, which is great to play along when your piano is not in tune with some recording... I love that thingy!) So, you see, Maximiliano Cobra's experiment isn't necessary at all, and I think we can proclaim, without fear or hesitation: "¡Maximiliano, agarrámela con la mano!"

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

That pedagogic effect (¡Hola, Manu! Tanto tiempo...) can be achieved by other means. The soundtouch dsp plug-in for foobar2000 is my favorite; but I guess there are others. You can slow down your Furtwängler (without altering the pitch) in order to better grasp the details, or speed it up to recognize the structures more easily. Tweaking the tempo this way is like zooming in and out an image. (you can also alter the pitch without altering tempo, which is great to play along when your piano is not in tune with some recording... I love that thingy!) So, you see, Maximiliano Cobra’s experiment isn’t necessary at all, and I think we can proclaim, without fear or hesitation: “¡Maximiliano, agarrámela con la mano!”

Fascinating! I use foobar2000 all the time, but I didn't know about that plug-in... So - thanks!

[m_gigena]

Fascinating! I use foobar2000 all the time, but I didn't know about that plug-in... So - thanks!

Neither did I. So I can now listen slow versions of all my favorite works. So far my only options were:
- Listening to Cobra's Ninth
- Playing at the piano some orchestral excerpts on which I have a particular interest (Like the time I played   through the whole first part of Mahler's 8th from the study score.)
- Whistling my favorite works, slowly.


You should tell Glenn Gould also. He would be delighted.