Mahler symphonies - help

[beclemund]

Since there was only one brief mention of Fischer in this thread that I recall, I thought I would mention to the original poster that Fischer and the Budapest on Mahler's 2nd and 6th are both quite wonderful. Since you did indicate you were looking for modern performances.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I'm really disappointed with this:



It seems there's a great performance in there somewhere, but the recording balance is crap. The strings sound so muted, turn it up and then get drowned out by the horns. It seems very understated as a performance compared to my other 3rd's (Lenny/NYPO + Tennsdedt/LPO) just feel a bit let down....

I hate that recording also. For the life of me I do NOT hear what others hear in that reading. The playing and recording is secondrate at best. For example, those 32nd note runs in the celli and basses in the first movement leading up to a middle C(I think)are marked ff (so is the C I think) but you would never know it from the recording. Either the basses and celli only have 2 players or they stink. Some people say the coda is the best, that's pretty sad considering the movement is 35 minutes long.

Read this review and I think you will agree:

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/090705-HC.asp

[Don]

I hate that recording also. For the life of me I do NOT hear what others hear in that reading. The playing and recording is secondrate at best. For example, those 32nd note runs in the celli and basses in the first movement leading up to a middle C(I think)are marked ff (so is the C I think) but you would never know it from the recording. Either the basses and celli only have 2 players or they stink. Some people say the coda is the best, that's pretty sad considering the movement is 35 minutes long.

Read this review and I think you will agree:

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/090705-HC.asp

Well, that's a Hurwitz review, and he's well known for disliking Horenstein almost as much as Barbirolli.  Most reviewers have a much higher opinion of both conductors.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Since there was only one brief mention of Fischer in this thread that I recall, I thought I would mention to the original poster that Fischer and the Budapest on Mahler's 2nd and 6th are both quite wonderful.

Indeed!

[BorisG]

Indeed!

Indeed not.

[SimonGodders]

I hate that recording also. For the life of me I do NOT hear what others hear in that reading. The playing and recording is secondrate at best. For example, those 32nd note runs in the celli and basses in the first movement leading up to a middle C(I think)are marked ff (so is the C I think) but you would never know it from the recording. Either the basses and celli only have 2 players or they stink. Some people say the coda is the best, that's pretty sad considering the movement is 35 minutes long.

Read this review and I think you will agree:

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/090705-HC.asp

Not really a fan of Hurwitz, does seem to be unnecessary spiteful (partic. with regards to Barbirolli) in some of his reviewing. On this occasion though, I perhaps share some of his sentiments!

Listened to the final movement of the Horenstein last night and it is an achingly beautiful performance, but I just find the balance so off-putting that I think it will have to go...

The quest continues...

[Sergeant Rock]

"But the recordings appeared as prime recommendations with decreasing frequency, save among those critics and fans for whom a nostalgic fondness for a first impression counts for more than how a piece of music should sound."--Hurwitz


Well, yes and no. I'm one of those fans of Horenstein with an intense nostalgia for this performance, true. It was my first Third and I played the first movement exclusively, and often, for a very long time. I thought it was so wonderful, I couldn't get beyond it; the other movements seemed a let down (I was young and ignorant  )  But I also love it because I think it is a great performance, and a unique one.

I own and enjoy many other versions, including Bernstein, Haitink, Tennstedt, Chailly, Boulez, Bertini and Levine, but Horenstein is still in the lineup. No, it isn't perfect (is there a perfect Third?). I acknowledge Hurwitz's criticisms: as usual he's correct in the details...but so what? A performance is more than dotting every i and crossing every t. In some ways Horenstein reminds me of a Klemperer performance: objective, even cool, and yet when those climactic moments arrive, they are simply overwhelming precisely because they stand out in such bold relief. Yes, PW, that coda of the first movement is something else! 

The sound quality: the strings are backwardly balanced. To get them in focus, I have to crank my system up, way beyond any other recording I own. That makes the fortissimo passages very loud (the horns will knock your socks off). It doesn't bother me (I live in a house with good sound insulation and far enough from neighbors) but I can see it being a real problem for apartment dwellers and dangerous for headphone users. I love it though; the spotlighting of the horns and timps thrills me. I'd single out the principle oboe too; a deeply affecting tone.

I wouldn't recommend Horenstein's Third as a first or even second choice but it is special and deserves its reputation. If you can live with its defects (apparently some here can't), it will bring much pleasure. I've lived with it since 1972; I wouldn't be without it.

Sarge

[SimonGodders]

The sound quality: the strings are backwardly balanced. To get them in focus, I have to crank my system up, way beyond any other recording I own. That makes the fortissimo passages very loud (the horns will knock your socks off). It doesn't bother me (I live in a house with good sound insulation and far enough from neighbors) but I can see it being a real problem for apartment dwellers and dangerous for headphone users. I love it though; the spotlighting of the horns and timps thrills me. I'd single out the principle oboe too; a deeply affecting tone.

This is the problem. I live in a block with neighbours behind, above and sideways and have sat through a couple of performances, constantly fiddling with the volume. It takes away the enjoyment and relaxation of the event, when at the back of my mind I'm getting anxious waiting for the horns to come in.

I'll keep it then, for when I have my house in the country, although with house prices what they are in the UK that's probably not likely to happen very soon!

Most frustrating, but still, thanks for your thoughts

[BorisG]

I hate that recording also. For the life of me I do NOT hear what others hear in that reading. The playing and recording is secondrate at best. For example, those 32nd note runs in the celli and basses in the first movement leading up to a middle C(I think)are marked ff (so is the C I think) but you would never know it from the recording. Either the basses and celli only have 2 players or they stink. Some people say the coda is the best, that's pretty sad considering the movement is 35 minutes long.

Read this review and I think you will agree:

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/090705-HC.asp

Do not agree at all. You must be one of the several Hurwitz disciples, that languish on his every whim.

[Bunny]

In addition to the poor balance, some of the earliest Horenstein Mahler 3rd cds also can suffer from bronzing.  I discovered this to my regret a couple of years ago when I picked a copy up used.  I had to return it and find a newer one, although I'm told that Unicorn will replace anything that has bronzed.

Lopez-Cobos also has a very fine Mahler 3rd (with the Cincinnati SO), which has excellent 4 channel (Dolby) sound.  Despite suffering from Telarc pedestrian cover syndrome, it's become one of my favorite recordings of the symphony. 

[Sergeant Rock]

In addition to the poor balance, some of the earliest Horenstein Mahler 3rd cds also can suffer from bronzing.  I discovered this to my regret a couple of years ago when I picked a copy up used.  I had to return it and find a newer one, although I'm told that Unicorn will replace anything that has bronzed.

Yeah, there are so many clicks and pops on my copy (bought when it was first released in the 80s), it sounds like a dirty, scratched LP. I need to replace it. But does Unicorn still exist as an independent record label? If not, is some other company honoring the replacement policy? I'll have to do some research.

Sarge

[Bunny]

Yeah, there are so many clicks and pops on my copy (bought when it was first released in the 80s), it sounds like a dirty, scratched LP. I need to replace it. But does Unicorn still exist as an independent record label? If not, is some other company honoring the replacement policy? I'll have to do some research.

Sarge

Good luck with that.  I thought about returning it to Unicorn, but the process was so daunting that I returned that copy and bought a more recent one (or at least I hope it's more recent).  Right now, it's easier to find the symphony on vinyl; dealing with good vinyl sq is better.

Meanwhile, I've ripped it in lossless format to hard drive so that I don't have to take the cd out of the case.  Anyway, I keep looking for the ideal recording of each symphony which is not a goal that will ever be reached.  However, it's so much fun finding newer great recordings to console myself and Mahler has become the musical equivalent of chocolate for me.  I get that craving and the Mahler goes on; as soon as I consume one, I'm looking for the next.   

[Sergeant Rock]

I get that craving and the Mahler goes on; as soon as I consume one, I'm looking for the next.   

I've got the same craving, Bunny  It's as bad as a heroin addiction   My latest Mahler fix: Kondrashin's Sixth with the Leningrad Phil (his entire cycle is once again available on Melodiya...I don't know whether to rejoice or weep) and the twofer that contains Haitink's Berlin Fourth and Fifth.

About returning the Horenstein Third: I found out the company that originally manufactured the CDs, PDO--they are responsible for the rot not only in certain Unicorn CDs but Hyperion, Decca and several others--was sold. The new company shut down the bronzing hotline last November and announced they weren't going to replace any more CDs. Looks like I'll just have to buy a new copy.

Sarge

[Bunny]

I've got the same craving, Bunny  It's as bad as a heroin addiction   My latest Mahler fix: Kondrashin's Sixth with the Leningrad Phil (his entire cycle is once again available on Melodiya...I don't know whether to rejoice or weep) and the twofer that contains Haitink's Berlin Fourth and Fifth.

About returning the Horenstein Third: I found out the company that originally manufactured the CDs, PDO--they are responsible for the rot not only in certain Unicorn CDs but Hyperion, Decca and several others--was sold. The new company shut down the bronzing hotline last November and announced they weren't going to replace any more CDs. Looks like I'll just have to buy a new copy.

Sarge

I have Kondrashin's cycle and most of Haitink's recordings of Mahler as well (only missing the Christmas Matinees), so I'm on the lookout for more bon-bons. 

[Que]

This one caught my eye - can anyone comment? (Japanese issue)

Thanks, Q

[Bunny]

I've never heard that, but if they like it in Asia, it probably has great merit.

[PerfectWagnerite]

In addition to the poor balance, some of the earliest Horenstein Mahler 3rd cds also can suffer from bronzing.  I discovered this to my regret a couple of years ago when I picked a copy up used.  I had to return it and find a newer one, although I'm told that Unicorn will replace anything that has bronzed.

Lopez-Cobos also has a very fine Mahler 3rd (with the Cincinnati SO), which has excellent 4 channel (Dolby) sound.  Despite suffering from Telarc pedestrian cover syndrome, it's become one of my favorite recordings of the symphony. 

The ninth with that conductor and orchestra is very very good as well.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

This one caught my eye - can anyone comment? (Japanese issue)

Thanks, Q

Q,

I have only one Senja disc featuring works by Martinu and Dvorak (with the CPO). Marvellous renditions.

Senja has that unique gift of sounding spontaneous without letting the music wander. It's a cross between intuition and being very well prepared so that the music needs nothing but some gentle prodding to resound loudly throughout the hills.

Unfortunately I can't speak for this Mahler recording but I'd bet my wisdom teeth it's dynamite!

[bhodges]

3. Haitink/CSO/CSO Resound - this is not out yet, The CSO is issuing it next month! I heard the live performance where this was recorded and it was one for the ages. Some of the finest playing I have ever heard from the orchestra and Haitink knew exactly where he was going with the piece. Also, the performance had the kind of spontaneity often missing from Haitink's studio recordings. If the engineering is half as good as the performance was, this will be the recording to have.

I'm just curious if anyone has heard this M3 recording yet? 

--Bruce

[MishaK]

I'm just curious if anyone has heard this M3 recording yet? 

Yes, I have. It's fantastic. Like the performance very broad, but structurally magnificent. Gorgeous playing, if slightly understated in places. The final movement has to be heard to be believed.