Mahler symphonies - help

[jwinter]

If the budget allows, I'd suggest either Chailly or Bertini as excellent complete sets in modern sound.  Either of these will give you lots of pleasure for years to come. 

If we're sticking with singles, since you have 1 & 5 you might try...

#2 -- Kaplan/VPO is excellent, as is Abbado/Lucerne.  Klemperer or Walter are also good if you can stand older (1960s) sound.

#3 -- I like Bernstein (either Sony or DG) for his over-the-top way with the finale.  Abbado is nice if you want a mellower, more refined approach, as is Chailly.

#6 -- Boulez is surprisingly good here, quite exciting.  Karajan is beautifully molded; Bernstein (DG) is powerful, though his opening march lacks a bit of grace IMO.  I also have a soft spot for Barbirolli here, it's a passionate performance although again the 1960s sound is not up to modern standards.

Hope that helps! 

[MishaK]

You've reccommended Boulez, and its dawned on me that I have yet to hear his renditions of this symphony cycle. Any specifics?

To me, Boulez sometimes works in Mahler, other times he misses the point due to his absolute refusal to indulge in any sense of show of emotion. I think his Nos. 1 and 9 are quite excellent. No.5 is one of the most bland readthroughs of the symphony I have ever heard. Yes, there are some interesting details, but as a whole it's unconvincing. This symphony is a roller-coaster ride and Boulez robs it of any thrust. I heard the 3rd live with him and was unmoved. Have not heard his recording. His 2nd is uneven. The scherzo is one of the very best on record and glows and sparkles with all the early modernist weirdness that Mahler injected into this movement. Really outstanding. But the rest of the performance somehow doesn't really want to take off. I have not heard Boulez's recordings of 3, 4, 6 or 7.

[BachQ]

Get the Bernstein/VPO set on DVD.  Start with #'s 2, 6, and 3.

[mahlertitan]

Really? I find Solti completely wrong for Mahler's Symphonies. He seems hurried and distant on these. I've always prefered the warm empathy of Bernstein to Solt. The saving grace for this recording really is, as usual, the brilliant playing of the CSO. But, I find these recordings fail to match the likes of Hatink of Berstein.

Bernstein is good too

[MishaK]

Bernstein is good too

But a little too heart-on-sleeve. I think whether or not Bernstein makes a Mahler good entry point for the unitiated, would depend on the predispositions of the individual. If one is easily turned off by excess emotionalism (for which Mahler's score provides ample opportunity), I would steer clear of Bernstein and more toward Haitink, Kubelik or Boulez.

[mahlertitan]

But a little too heart-on-sleeve. I think whether or not Bernstein makes a Mahler good entry point for the unitiated, would depend on the predispositions of the individual. If one is easily turned off by excess emotionalism (for which Mahler's score provides ample opportunity), I would steer clear of Bernstein and more toward Haitink, Kubelik or Boulez.

Haitink, Boulez and Kubelik are fine too.

[rubio]

I think many will agree with me that the Bertini box set is excellent. It's probably one of the symphony box sets I'm most consistently satisfied with (not dependent of composer). I have heard quite many Mahler recordings (except for the 8th) and IMO Bertini is at the top position (at least sharing it), or close to the top position for all the symphonies. Highly recommended, and it can be found quite cheap too.

[rubio]

Boulez's 7th & 6th are desert island material, the best of his cycle, followed by his 1st which is good also.

I love Boulez 6th, and it is my favourite recording of that symphony. I didn't really care much for his 5th. I've also got his 3rd in my listening pile. I'm looking forward to enjoy it soon  .

[Sergeant Rock]

Boulez's 7th & 6th are desert island material, the best of his cycle, followed by his 1st which is good also.

I must be the only person on this list who failed to connect to with Boulez Sixth. Despite M forever's intense advocacy, spanning several months, when I finally listened to it, I was completely underwhelmed. I only listened once; maybe I was having a bad day or something. Should give it another go. Still, I really doubt Boulez is going to make me forget Solti, Szell, Chailly and Karajan.

Sarge

[mahlertitan]

I think many will agree with me that the Bertini box set is excellent. It's probably one of the symphony box sets I'm most consistently satisfied with (not dependent of composer). I have heard quite many Mahler recordings (except for the 8th) and IMO Bertini is at the top position (at least sharing it), or close to the top position for all the symphonies. Highly recommended, and it can be found quite cheap too.

bertini is alright.

[BorisG]

I'm new to these.

Have recently purchased No.1 by Zinman and the Zurich Tonhalle and really enjoyed it.

I've now just put an order in for Rattle and the BPO in No.5 and was wondering where I should go next.  Anyone interested in suggesting my next three purchases would get my grateful thanks.

Other things being equal I would prefer more recent recordings from a sound quality point of view.

thanks

Quickly rid yourself of those two. As someone has suggested, the Bertini box would be an intelligent beginning.

[Sergeant Rock]

Excellent choices, O, which come really close to mine.

1: Kubelik/BRSO/DG - completely natural and fully at home in the odd folkloristic juxtapositions of this symphony. The BRSO's playing is superlative.

Yes, although I want the Blumine, too, so I would recommend Ozawa/Berlin along with Kubelik.

2. Haitink/RCO/Philips - still to me the finest recorded performance, though Solti and Kubelik are not far behind. Every detail shines through with Haitink and makes sense in the context of the whole.

My first Second, and a performance I still love. Kaplan/VPO is my current favorite though but I can't fault your choice.

3. Haitink/CSO/CSO Resound - this is not out yet

I'll probably be buying this one. I own Haitink's Concertgebouw recording and I like his way with this symphony. My current top choice, though, is Levine/Philadelphia, primariy because he finds very dark, disturbing elements in the penultimate movement and because I love that protracted Finale.
 

4. Kletzki/Philharmonia/EMI - Kletzki somehow manages to find the fine balance between the bucolic and the parodistic in this symphony much better than anyone else. This performance of the 4th evolves so naturally it seems as if nobody ever needed to rehearse it at all.

Kletzki I don't know and until I do my vote goes to Maazel/Vienna/Battle for reasons I gave today in the listening thread.

5. Chailly/RCO/Decca - probably the best performance in spacious modern sound. The sonics of this recording must be heard to be believed. The Concertgebouw in its full glory. Solo horn Jakob Slagter and solo trumpet Peter Masseurs do superlative work here.

Yes...but that may change. I recently purchased a dark horse, Neumann/Leipzig, and was completely, and pleasantly surprised to discover how good it is. I need to listen a few more times though before making any final judgment.

6. Solti/CSO/Decca - the raw energy and intensity of this performance is yet to be surpassed. Yet, Solti finds the time to smell the flowers in the slow movement and CSO principal horn Dale Clevenger delivers a solo of such refinement that you just want to melt away.

Yes...yes! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who admires this. I still love Szell/Cleveland (I was in the audience that evening) and Karajan's Andante is ravishing, but Solti has been my first choice for over thirty years.

7. Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin/Warner - the 7th seems to be one of the toughest Mahler symphonies to bring off. It often devolves into seemingly unrelated melodic episodes or into an aloof, proto-modernist musical exercise. Barenboim here manages to bridge the gap and create a flowing, living, breathing performance. He is aided in no small part by the magnificent palette of colors of the Staatskapelle Berlin.

Yes...that's the one I'd recommend to folks anyway. My favorite version is Klemperer's but I'm sure now I'm the only person on this planet who can stand it

8. Chailly/RCO - all the tautness of Solti's performance, but with far better sound, more attention to detail and a warmer, richer palette of colors. Among recordings in modern sound in a class of its own. Again, the Concertgebouw unleashes its unparalelled Mahler heritage and experience.

Yes

9. Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin - what I said about his 7th you could repeat here. Just a fantastic performance with a rich, dark sound very much appropriate for the mood of this work.

This I haven't heard yet. Klemperer is my overall choice (I admire the stoicism of this reading) but when I want sheer, overwhelming beauty, Karajan can't be beat.

Sarge

[BorisG]

I do not hear what some people hear in Blumine. It remains a throwaway, as Mahler intended.

I must believe not enough people have heard the Suitner 2.

For 3, Haitink's name should be put forward, if it from the Christmas concert.

Kletzki was a centralist, like Bertini. People should be courageous when seeking a 4.

5, 6, 7, some say a trifecta for Bernstein. Although I have other favorites, I cannot argue too loudly.

Someone tell me 8 is not just noise. What happened to Mahler here? Has Boulez interjected some Messiaen to raise interest?

Karajan finally got lucky with 9.

[MishaK]

I must believe not enough people have heard the Suitner 2.

Indeed, I haven't. Though it is on my wishlist. I have had mixed results with Suitner. Sometimes he's on fire (Brahms 1), other times things just plod along prettily without making much of a statement at all (Brahms 2-4).

Kletzki was a centralist, like Bertini. People should be courageous when seeking a 4.

What do you mean? What would be a courageous choice for the 4th? The 4th has some very subtle parody. A lot of conductors miss this and it turns out too pretty. Kletzki was one of the few, IMHO, who got this (Mengelberg is another).

[not edward]

I must be the only person on this list who failed to connect to with Boulez Sixth. Despite M forever's intense advocacy, spanning several months, when I finally listened to it, I was completely underwhelmed. I only listened once; maybe I was having a bad day or something. Should give it another go. Still, I really doubt Boulez is going to make me forget Solti, Szell, Chailly and Karajan.

Sarge

I'm another who finds Boulez as his benchmark performance for this symphony, though I don't imagine everyone would warm to the performance. To me, the key to Boulez's conception is the utter absence of hope in the finale: the music relentlessly drives on to the final collapse without ever really believing in the heroic side of the narrative.

Other symphonies I have a clear preference in: Kubelik's delightfully natural 1st, Szell's lithe but definitely not superficial 4th, and the 9th where Ancerl's lovingly crafted rendition edges out the Walter-Barbirolli-Klemperer triad by a nose.

[BorisG]

Indeed, I haven't. Though it is on my wishlist. I have had mixed results with Suitner. Sometimes he's on fire (Brahms 1), other times things just plod along prettily without making much of a statement at all (Brahms 2-4).

What do you mean? What would be a courageous choice for the 4th? The 4th has some very subtle parody. A lot of conductors miss this and it turns out too pretty. Kletzki was one of the few, IMHO, who got this (Mengelberg is another).

In no order, Nezet-Seguin, Gatti, Harding, Abravanel, and Horenstein come to mind.

[MishaK]

In no order, Nezet-Seguin, Gatti, Harding, Abravanel, and Horenstein come to mind.

Why? Give me reasons. What distinguishes each one of them? I know Abravanel and his Utah Symphony are undeservedly underrated, but Abravanel is hardly unusual in his interpretive approaches, though I haven't heard his 4th.

[mahlertitan]

blumine is a good piece of music, just as long as it's not heard in context of the 1st symphony, but as a stand alone piece, it's wonderful.

[DavidW]

Well there's no consensus to be found on great Mahler!  Guess the best approach is to randomly buy recordings until one figures what conductors one likes.

[mahlertitan]

Well there's no consensus to be found on great Mahler!  Guess the best approach is to randomly buy recordings until one figures what conductors one likes.

and don't forget that there will be new conductors in the future.