The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread

Started by Harry, January 08, 2008, 01:08:57 AM

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Mandryka

Quote from: Selig on August 06, 2021, 09:23:24 AM
Have you heard Bernard Winsemius play van Noordt's psalm 119? I thought that piece was a little sleepy on the Naxos disc (vol. 2), I like this more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M0hDlV_SFc

1791 Hess organ, Nieuwe kerk, Haarlem

Yes I have, I like Winsemius very much.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#1001


Contrary to what the cover may suggest, only three of the pieces here are by Willaert. Musica Nova was an anthology of pieces by several different composers. The odd thing is that they choose to play many of them as duets for organ and harpsichord, the result sounds like a claviorganum of course, but it ain't. And some of them are for two organs. Do they need more than two hands and two feet? The recording is very satisfying in indeed.

Willaert: Ricercare I (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare III (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare IV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare VI (organ)
Benoist: Ricercare VII (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare VIII (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare IX (organ)
Willaert: Ricercare X (2 organs)
Segni: Ricercare XI (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XII (harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare XIII (harpsichord)
Willaert: Ricercare XIV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare XV (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare XVI (2 organs)
Golin: Ricercare XVII (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XVIII (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XIX (organ, harpsichord)
Cavazzoni: Ricercare XX (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XXI (harpsichord)
Willaert or Segni: Ricercare XXII / Appendix 1 (organ)
Coste: Ricercare XXIII / Appendix 2 (organ)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Selig

Quote from: Mandryka on August 08, 2021, 11:20:37 PM
Willaert: Ricercare I (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare III (harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare IV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare VI (organ)
Benoist: Ricercare VII (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare VIII (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare IX (organ)
Willaert: Ricercare X (2 organs)
Segni: Ricercare XI (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XII (harpsichord)
Segni or Willaert: Ricercare XIII (harpsichord)
Willaert: Ricercare XIV (organ, harpsichord)
Segni: Ricercare XV (harpsichord, organ)
Segni: Ricercare XVI (2 organs)
Golin: Ricercare XVII (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XVIII (organ)
Segni: Ricercare XIX (organ, harpsichord)
Cavazzoni: Ricercare XX (harpsichord, organ)
Parabosco: Ricercare XXI (harpsichord)
Willaert or Segni: Ricercare XXII / Appendix 1 (organ)
Coste: Ricercare XXIII / Appendix 2 (organ)

Are any of these pieces special in your opinion? IIRC Glen Wilson singled out Willaert XIV as a great masterpiece.

Mandryka

#1003
Quote from: Selig on August 09, 2021, 12:05:33 AM
Are any of these pieces special in your opinion? IIRC Glen Wilson singled out Willaert XIV as a great masterpiece.

No, I can't say that any one is special on that recording, the Willaert XIV is certainly longer (though they only take 5 minutes to get through  it!)  What is striking is the claviorganum effect.

I listened to this today - good organ, bracingly played - to the extent that the counterpoint gets a bit smudged I think. But it is breathtaking. It made me think of this comment of Glen Wilson's

QuoteThe way the ranks of the Italian church organ are built up weighs them heavily to the treble. There are no mixtures to balance the bass (although smaller registers break back when their pipes become too small). Large organs even sometimes have additional ranks of principal pipes in the discant. This shows, to my mind, that their main function was the harmonization of choral melodies (falso bordone). Recordings, as well as my own experiences as performer and listener, confirm that lower contrapuntal voices come through poorly.



That being said, I feel that the ideal recording of this music may not be on keyboard - it may come off well for an ensemble.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on August 09, 2021, 09:48:37 AM




That being said, I feel that the ideal recording of this music may not be on keyboard - it may come off well for an ensemble.

Then this may be part of what you are looking for (it sounds as if you do not know it):

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8031991--musica-nova

However I think the recording you mentioned above is most enjoyable and Tamminga was almost congenial in this music. Fortunately he left us many recordings.
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Mandryka

Quote from: (: premont :) on August 09, 2021, 10:15:05 AM
Then this may be part of what you are looking for (it sounds as if you do not know it):

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8031991--musica-nova



Ah, I knew it existed but I had never heard it. It is more like how I imagine the music in fact.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#1006
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 09, 2021, 10:15:05 AM

However I think the recording you mentioned above is most enjoyable and Tamminga was almost congenial in this music. Fortunately he left us many recordings.

There's something very free, spontaneous and inspired about the way he plays. A sort of abandon of the self. He reminds me of  Leonhardt in the last Forqueray CD, or Samson Francis in the Chopin mazurkas. Ultimately the Musica Nova recording is not for me for the reason I mentioned yesterday. But I've been enjoying very much Tamminga's contribution to this rather fine compilation CD




The above is an outstanding CD!

(Thinking about Glen Wilson's comment on the bass response on Italian organs makes me want to go back to Rousset's Frescobaldi, I remember he deliberately chose a harpsichord with a poor bass response, saying that this was the authentic choice.)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on August 10, 2021, 12:45:15 AM



The above is an outstanding CD!

Completely agreed. It's the most interesting Isaac recording I have heard. It may convert even Que to Isaac. I got interested in it because of the three-part Agnus Dei II, which is the origin of this much recorded three part (instrumental) La Spagna (here with Don Smithers and David Munrow):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw0xAeAt3lA



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Mandryka



This is presumably one of the recordings Glen Wilson was thinking of when he made his comment about bass voices on Italian organs. However, it is a very enjoyable recording IMO!  Both the performance and the music are very enjoyable.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka



Tremendous organ here, as far as I know the only recording of the organ at the oratory of Sant'Antonio dei Cavalieri de Nardis in Aquila. Chamber sized I think. Performances incline towards the contemplative rather than virtuoso, good music in a Frescobaldi vein, like it very much.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Que

Quote from: Mandryka on August 14, 2021, 01:07:00 AM


Tremendous organ here, as far as I know the only recording of the organ at the oratory of Sant'Antonio dei Cavalieri de Nardis in Aquila. Chamber sized I think. Performances incline towards the contemplative rather than virtuoso, good music in a Frescobaldi vein, like it very much.

Agreed.  :)

Mandryka

Unlistenable transfer of what sounds like a fabulous Fiori Musicale at Bologna, Tagliavini at the organ in his inimitable style. Best played in one room and listened to in another

http://downloadclassica.blogspot.com/search/label/Frescobaldi
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka



This is Gary Verklader's recording of Steigleder's ricercar cycle. A real orgy of colour, , it must be wonderful live. Modern copy of an early 17th century organ in Sweden - organ sounds great! The music is quirky, varied and interesting.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

This is an excellent recording of lesser known organ composers in great sound:



I don't know anything about the organ, but this instrument sounds beautiful and is recorded excellently. I would love to hear more organ recordings on the Oehms label but don't know how many there are. They did a great job with this one.

bioluminescentsquid

#1014


Mandryka introduced me to this recording, but I haven't listened to it much until now. And holy crap, what an amazing recording this is! Tuinstra is famous (infamous?) for his kaleidoscopic registrations, especially in the Netherlands where most organists seem to prefer simpler registrations and not many changes. It works really well here, the music itself isn't the most interesting so I think all the dizzying colors really add interest to it. And underneath all the flamboyant registrations Tuinstra is still at heart a Dutch organist - still solid, straightforward and weighty. It might even be one of the recordings I would recommend to someone just starting out in organ music, although typical for Dutch productions it's pretty expensive and hard to obtain. The booklet is free online, and is one of the most detailed booklets I've ever seen (and in 3 languages!): https://www.documuziekproductie.nl/images/uploads/cd_boekjes/BOHM_booklet.pdf
The organ on the last disc, Zandeweer is a highlight - not recorded on nearly enough. I like the extremely throaty and raspy principal sounds it has, although your mileage may vary.

Mandryka

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on December 29, 2021, 01:13:10 PM


Mandryka introduced me to this recording, but I haven't listened to it much until now. And holy crap, what an amazing recording this is! Tuinstra is famous (infamous?) for his kaleidoscopic registrations, especially in the Netherlands where most organists seem to prefer simpler registrations and not many changes. It works really well here, the music itself isn't the most interesting so I think all the dizzying colors really add interest to it. And underneath all the flamboyant registrations Tuinstra is still at heart a Dutch organist - still solid, straightforward and weighty. It might even be one of the recordings I would recommend to someone just starting out in organ music, although typical for Dutch productions it's pretty expensive and hard to obtain. The booklet is free online, and is one of the most detailed booklets I've ever seen (and in 3 languages!): https://www.documuziekproductie.nl/images/uploads/cd_boekjes/BOHM_booklet.pdf
The organ on the last disc, Zandeweer is a highlight - not recorded on nearly enough. I like the extremely throaty and raspy principal sounds it has, although your mileage may vary.

I'm glad you like it, at the end of the day it's too solid, too straightforward, too weighty for me.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on December 29, 2021, 09:07:35 PM
I'm glad you like it, at the end of the day it's too solid, too straightforward, too weighty for me.

Who's recording of Böhm's organ works do you prefer?

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Mandryka

#1017
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 30, 2021, 12:45:33 AM
Who's recording of Böhm's organ works do you prefer?

Harald Vogel, Wim van Beek, Bernard Foccroulle.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#1018


Nice to be reminded of these distinctive performances, which seem to me this evening - maybe it's my mood I don't know - to be less often marked by bravura and more often marked by a slight melancholy. I like that.

Whether anyone else will feel the same way, I can't say. What I think is undeniable is that Foccroulle communicates authenticity, he clearly cares about the music, he's not just going through the motions.

I think Auf meinen lieben gott is particularly successful - somehow Foccroulle's very fluid articulation - each phrase almost (but not quite) flowing seamlessly into the next - seems to come off very beautifully here. And his registrations are noble and yet human and warm too.

Good recording, full frequency, as they used to say - good for the subs. But with a proviso:  there's no sense of the Alkmaar church - it is quite closely miked. Some will see that as a good thing no doubt, but me, I like to hear the hall.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

bioluminescentsquid

Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2021, 10:18:38 AM


Nice to be reminded of these distinctive performances, which seem to me this evening - maybe it's my mood I don't know - to be less often marked by bravura and more often marked by a slight melancholy. I like that.

Whether anyone else will feel the same way, I can't say. What I think is undeniable is that Foccroulle communicates authenticity, he clearly cares about the music, he's not just going through the motions.

I think Auf meinen lieben gott is particularly successful - somehow Foccroulle's very fluid articulation - each phrase almost (but not quite) flowing seamlessly into the next - seems to come off very beautifully here. And his registrations are noble and yet human and warm too.

Good recording, full frequency, as they used to say - good for the subs. But with a proviso:  there's no sense of the Alkmaar church - it is quite closely miked. Some will see that as a good thing no doubt, but me, I like to hear the hall.

I see what you mean here, Foccroulle sounds measured and careful here, not relying on color and bravura like Tuinstra. I like the close miking a lot.