The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

JFYI, Watanabe's web and bio.

https://darcadia.blogspot.com/search/label/member%20of%20RD

Thanks for pointing that out, it does indeed sound rather good.


I have to say I'm  a harpsichord man for this, more cut and thrust, but I'll listen to some organ recordings later -- listening with great pleasure to Egarr now -- a very colourful and refined instrument there.


Recant NOW! As far as I know Sweelinck was a secular organist, he was employed to give concerts to entertain anyone who happened to be in the Amsterdam church. Organ music had nothing to do with church services, it was strictly forbidden. (WARNING -- my entire knowledge of this comes from Egarr's essay for his Sweelinck CD!)

Boccacio's Froberger was also "secular" -- I called it "Italian" rather than secular (vigorous, polished) but I think I was hearing what you're hearing.

[Elk]

XB-70 Valkyrie,

I haven't yet turned my listening chair around. It would be inconvenient. However, I am a pacer and often hear the sound coming from the reverberant field as I walk around. During the last month, I have been playing with multi-channel sound from SACDs and DVDs, and with them, there really is reverberation from the recording venue. While the jury is still out, I am finding the envelopment, or immersion as audio scientists refer to it, of sound appealing, though it depends on the recording, and I haven't yet convinced myself the ante is worth it.

I hope you don't mind the tangent I took :-)

Elk

[prémont]

Do any of youse guys ever turn around in your listening chair so that you face away from the (speakers) organ, as you would in most churches?

No, on the contrary I use at organ concertos to turn round as much as possible to have the face towards the organ. Our ears are naturally designed to hear the sounds coming in front of us most clearly..

[Que]

As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, [...]

For the cover, Brilliant used a portait made in the early seventies by Dutch graphic designer Oxenaar, to feature on the 25 guilder banknote:



Q

[bioluminescentsquid]

https://youtu.be/-48MOAa3Es0

A wonderfully introverted, ecstatic Erbarm dich of Sweelinck played by Leon Berben at Tangermunde. I like this organ much more than the Liege organ, Niehoff reconstruction or not.

[Mandryka]

https://youtu.be/-48MOAa3Es0

A wonderfully introverted, ecstatic Erbarm dich of Sweelinck played by Leon Berben at Tangermunde. I like this organ much more than the Liege organ, Niehoff reconstruction or not.

Yes lovely, thanks for posting it.

[bioluminescentsquid]

https://youtu.be/dJub5esLuBQ

A LP rip of a young Bernard Winsemius playing the then-freshly restored A'dam Nieuwe kerk organ in 1983, for all the Winsemius fans here on this forum.

[Mandryka]

https://youtu.be/dJub5esLuBQ

A LP rip of a young Bernard Winsemius playing the then-freshly restored A'dam Nieuwe kerk organ in 1983, for all the Winsemius fans here on this forum.

Excellent, thank you.

[Papy Oli]

Might be of interest for those who can access it :

Lesley Dolphin - Church Organ builder Peter Bumstead sits on Lesley's sofa. - BBC Sounds
Peter Bumstead has been building and repairing Church Organs for nearly 40 years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p05z4w5m

[Mandryka]

This is a little gem - music, organ and organist are all wonderful. Actually, "little" is misleading, it's a huge anthology of music.

St Trond is described here.

http://routardenvadrouille.e-monsite.com/pages/reportages-de-clione/beguinages/page-11.html


The web page was full of ads for me, but it's worth persevering because the church and the organ is special. French, but the pics are worth looking at even if you can't read the words. . A béguinage is a place for lay religious women. The wiki about them is amusing because of the etymology! I was hoping it came from béguin, but no, the much more prosaic bégayer apparently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beguinage

Pierre Froidebise (what a wonderful name - Peter Coldwind I guess but it could just was well be Peter Coldkiss!) knows how to play it and makes sense of this very early music. He's done other stuff, including some Bach at Alkmaar which I haven't heard yet.

[bioluminescentsquid]

This is a little gem - music, organ and organist are all wonderful. Actually, "little" is misleading, it's a huge anthology of music.

St Trond is described here.

http://routardenvadrouille.e-monsite.com/pages/reportages-de-clione/beguinages/page-11.html


The web page was full of ads for me, but it's worth persevering because the church and the organ is special. French, but the pics are worth looking at even if you can't read the words. . A béguinage is a place for lay religious women. The wiki about them is amusing because of the etymology! I was hoping it came from béguin, but no, the much more prosaic bégayer apparently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beguinage

Pierre Froidebise (what a wonderful name - Peter Coldwind I guess but it could just was well be Peter Coldkiss!) knows how to play it and makes sense of this very early music. He's done other stuff, including some Bach at Alkmaar which I haven't heard yet.

I recognize it by the Dutch name, Begijnhof at Sint Truiden. Wonderful 17th century organ.
I'm sure you recognize this, which is also recorded on it:

[André Le Nôtre]

I am really enjoying the Organic Creatures two disc set by Catalina Vicens. I held out for the actual discs instead of the MP3s (although the former required some patience to acquire), and I'm glad I did. However, I wish the liner notes had more photos and commentary about the music and instruments. It actually would have made for a superb little hardcover book.

I must say the playing is superb although I am unfamiliar with much of this music. The "Pigeon Egg" organ by van der Putten is delightfully strange, but also very beautiful. Some of the sounds are strange enough I began to suspect they were electronically altered or augmented, but liner notes say otherwise. Looking forward to starting disc 2.

[Mandryka]

I am really enjoying the Organic Creatures two disc set by Catalina Vicens. I held out for the actual discs instead of the MP3s (although the former required some patience to acquire), and I'm glad I did. However, I wish the liner notes had more photos and commentary about the music and instruments. It actually would have made for a superb little hardcover book.

I must say the playing is superb although I am unfamiliar with much of this music. The "Pigeon Egg" organ by van der Putten is delightfully strange, but also very beautiful. Some of the sounds are strange enough I began to suspect they were electronically altered or augmented, but liner notes say otherwise. Looking forward to starting disc 2.

Yes it's very good and I didn't know that a CD had become available, I shall have to order one. I heard her play the organ and it does sound like that - though the acoustics of the recording is much better than the acoustics of the church where she played!

[André Le Nôtre]

There is not much I have been able to find online about these instruments. Do you know whether the van der Putten "Pigeon Egg" organ is a faithful reconstruction of a historical instrument, or more of an experimental instrument? At least one of these has a tuning system I have never heard of.

The mic placement in these recordings is extremely close (At least on the first CD I listened to) and there is very little sonic clue as to the environment. In any case, she is very young and has interesting ideas. Hopefully, we will have many more years' worth of recordings from her to look forward to.

[bioluminescentsquid]

There is not much I have been able to find online about these instruments. Do you know whether the van der Putten "Pigeon Egg" organ is a faithful reconstruction of a historical instrument, or more of an experimental instrument? At least one of these has a tuning system I have never heard of.

The mic placement in these recordings is extremely close (At least on the first CD I listened to) and there is very little sonic clue as to the environment. In any case, she is very young and has interesting ideas. Hopefully, we will have many more years' worth of recordings from her to look forward to.

First thing, I just checked out Organic creatures - The real 15th century works are well-played, since she's undoubtedly the master of those. On the other hand, her free improvisations are interesting, but I can't take too much at once.

I like the mic placement, gives a good sense of intensity and detail in the sound of the organ. Apparently the organ at Krewerd is actually very loud (Marc will know?), locals call it something along the lines of "the screamer of Krewerd." It sounds smoother and less "screamy" here than on most recordings I know of it, I wonder how the engineers managed to do that.

Temperament - worth reading about Pythagorean tuning, which most (?) organs of this time should be tuned in. Meantone wasn't used until the late 15th or early 16th century (my history is rusty here) where you would hear more thirds, which would be unusable in pythagorean. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning

There are no complete surviving instruments before the Ostönnen organ of ~1425 that Vicens uses in the recording - some pipework from here or there and a few cases (e.g. an 14th century emptied case from Norrlanda, Sweden), but nothing you would call a complete organ.  Even during the time of Praetorius (early 17th century) these early instruments were already rare and considered as curiosities. So all the reconstructions are conjectural, but based off of historical sources (treatises about organ building or paintings of organs).
A really good article about these organs: http://www.davidrumsey.ch/DIAP0513p20-25.pdf

[André Le Nôtre]

Thanks for the info! I will look forward to reading.

Actually, the improvisations are my two favorite tracks on CD1--track 2 Titled "Creatures" and track 20 "Improvisation". In fact, the liner notes list CD1 as having 21 tracks, with the second improvisation not listed. However Foobar 2000/MusicBrainz lists it as having 22 tracks with track 20 titled "Improvization" after ripping to FLAC. I wonder whether the MP3 tracks are identical to the ones on the CD. The MP3s were only $8 a few months ago on Amazon, but I held out for the CDs (nearly $40).

[pjme]

There is not much I have been able to find online about these instruments. Do you know whether the van der Putten "Pigeon Egg" organ is a faithful reconstruction of a historical instrument, or more of an experimental instrument? At least one of these has a tuning system I have never heard of.

Check (and ask) van der Putten : https://www.orgelmakerij.nl/?lang=en

https://www.orgelmakerij.nl/2012-hamburg/?lang=en
(Hamburg - with pigeon egg scale)

https://books.google.be/books?id=tZpE05Ws_BwC&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=Pigeon+egg+mensura&source=bl&ots=VfTUJZ3kZ7&sig=ACfU3U3DRtY6YopDbsNXvLQSPzLKpjBoDw&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjK2rn67rAhVHm6QKHeFFDz0Q6AEwEHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Pigeon%20egg%20mensura&f=false

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/855/
About Sint Truiden begijnhof.



Psallentes made two cds with music sung by the "begijntjes" .

[André]

Coincidentally, yesterday's edition of the belgian TV news had a feature on the Leuven beginhof. A 'quiet city' within the city. Yet another place to visit  .

[bioluminescentsquid]

A great online recital given by Peter van der Zwaag on the rarely heard 1663 Father Smith organ in Edam. It makes some really delicate and ravishing sounds that are to die for!
Especially enjoyed the Willam Byrd Ut re mi and Bach at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDb17Ijet4

[bioluminescentsquid]

https://books.google.be/books?id=tZpE05Ws_BwC&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=Pigeon+egg+mensura&source=bl&ots=VfTUJZ3kZ7&sig=ACfU3U3DRtY6YopDbsNXvLQSPzLKpjBoDw&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjK2rn67rAhVHm6QKHeFFDz0Q6AEwEHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Pigeon%20egg%20mensura&f=false

Thanks for this book, was an interesting read. Even as an organist, I confess that I pretty much know nothing about organs and their music before the Faenza/Robertsbridge Codexes.