Author Topic: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread  (Read 190672 times)

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Online Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #920 on: August 23, 2020, 06:29:51 AM »
A great online recital given by Peter van der Zwaag on the rarely heard 1663 Father Smith organ in Edam. It makes some really delicate and ravishing sounds that are to die for!
Especially enjoyed the Willam Byrd Ut re mi and Bach at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDb17Ijet4

Very good -- I wonder if he says anything specially interesting between the tracks.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #921 on: August 23, 2020, 09:48:42 AM »
Very good -- I wonder if he says anything specially interesting between the tracks.
It's all double dutch to me.
Of course, Edam is also the butt of that cheesy joke I won't repeat here.

Good essay about this organ, if you haven't seen it: https://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/edam.html
I've never heard of anyone who actually tried to peddle the idea of "tonal maturation" when it comes to organs, though, so I'm not sure why Bicknell felt the need to argue so strongly against it.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 09:59:08 AM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline André Le Nôtre

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #922 on: August 24, 2020, 06:06:41 PM »
It's all double dutch to me.
Of course, Edam is also the butt of that cheesy joke I won't repeat here.


What about Venezuelan beaver cheese?

???

Have you got any cheese at all (he said expecting the answer 'no')?


Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #923 on: August 29, 2020, 07:10:20 PM »


Just looking at the tracklist, lots of seldom-recorded Sweelinckian stuff primarily from the Lüneburg organ tabulature (from which we get most of our surviving music of Scheidemann, Weckmann etc.) intersperced with more familiar beauties from the usual suspects.

I am listening to the Praetorius Magnificat which I've actually played before (the first verse is a classic "Hamburg style" plainchant setting in which you play the cantus on the upper of the 2 voices of the pedal and double it as the lowest voice in the hands - Weckmann also does this somewhat often) and it is clear and relaxed, possibly a bit too relaxed. But extremely inventive playing. I have to listen more.

And of course, the excellent Stellwagen organ is well-known in this neighborhood :)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nPJwSsgemzg9J2xg7IQ1HyUQHV0d5O3Kk


Edit: a nice video-trailer to this disc https://vimeo.com/341527492
Captures the paradoxically grand-yet-intimate atmosphere of St. Jakobi Lübeck, scarcely half the size but having two organs of almost comparable size to those at the Marienkirche.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 07:29:02 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #924 on: August 30, 2020, 08:56:53 PM »


Friedhelm Flamme playing Buxtehude, also a recent release. I've always had the impression that Flamme was a rather wishy-washy performer who often inexplicably decided to record on "wrong" organs. (e.g. Lübeck on a Central German organ, Praetorius on a boring 19th century organ etc.) His Schildt and to a lesser degree, Jacob Praetorius has proved me wrong, but this one is really, really good.

Bold, unnuanced but captivating playing, and of course a wide variety of registrations to show off the not-quite-authentic but still wonderful 1734 Treutmann organ.
A major highlight is his breathtaking e minor chaconne, which he plays on the full organ with the deep 32' reed thrown in for good measure. It has all the subtlety of a dancing herd of elephants and I absolutely love it - the chaconne has never made sense to me until now. (after all, these 18th century ostinato pieces were generally considered to be festive pieces for full organ and the modern love for kaleidoscopic registrational changes really is an anachronism)
The chorales, while delivered in a rather deadpan and straightforward manner, also sound well with lots of interesting registrations.

Offline "Harry"

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #925 on: August 30, 2020, 10:56:24 PM »


Friedhelm Flamme playing Buxtehude, also a recent release. I've always had the impression that Flamme was a rather wishy-washy performer who often inexplicably decided to record on "wrong" organs. (e.g. Lübeck on a Central German organ, Praetorius on a boring 19th century organ etc.) His Schildt and to a lesser degree, Jacob Praetorius has proved me wrong, but this one is really, really good.

Bold, unnuanced but captivating playing, and of course a wide variety of registrations to show off the not-quite-authentic but still wonderful 1734 Treutmann organ.
A major highlight is his breathtaking e minor chaconne, which he plays on the full organ with the deep 32' reed thrown in for good measure. It has all the subtlety of a dancing herd of elephants and I absolutely love it - the chaconne has never made sense to me until now. (after all, these 18th century ostinato pieces were generally considered to be festive pieces for full organ and the modern love for kaleidoscopic registrational changes really is an anachronism)
The chorales, while delivered in a rather deadpan and straightforward manner, also sound well with lots of interesting registrations.

Good for you, Flamme irritates me no end with his pedantic style of playing, missing a lot of the details, by making the organ sound like the landing of a Boeing 777 ER. Subtlety is not one of his strong points. In fact I find him a mediocre organist!
There comes a point in your life when you realize: Who matters, Who never did, Who won't anymore, And who always will. So, don't worry about people from your past, there's a reason why they didn't make it to your future.

Online Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #926 on: August 30, 2020, 11:57:10 PM »


Friedhelm Flamme playing Buxtehude, also a recent release. I've always had the impression that Flamme was a rather wishy-washy performer who often inexplicably decided to record on "wrong" organs. (e.g. Lübeck on a Central German organ, Praetorius on a boring 19th century organ etc.) His Schildt and to a lesser degree, Jacob Praetorius has proved me wrong, but this one is really, really good.

Bold, unnuanced but captivating playing, and of course a wide variety of registrations to show off the not-quite-authentic but still wonderful 1734 Treutmann organ.
A major highlight is his breathtaking e minor chaconne, which he plays on the full organ with the deep 32' reed thrown in for good measure. It has all the subtlety of a dancing herd of elephants and I absolutely love it - the chaconne has never made sense to me until now. (after all, these 18th century ostinato pieces were generally considered to be festive pieces for full organ and the modern love for kaleidoscopic registrational changes really is an anachronism)
The chorales, while delivered in a rather deadpan and straightforward manner, also sound well with lots of interesting registrations.

Thanks, listening to the chaconne now. Who could resist a heard of elephants?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #927 on: August 31, 2020, 12:07:23 AM »
Thanks, listening to the chaconne now. Who could resist a heard of elephants?

Is "heard" a pun? :)

For those craving more elephants, I present to you Sietze de Vries having fun with Praetorius on Reincken's organ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuS58-IeZBY

Online Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #928 on: August 31, 2020, 01:36:54 AM »
Is "heard" a pun? :)

For those craving more elephants, I present to you Sietze de Vries having fun with Praetorius on Reincken's organ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuS58-IeZBY

Of course. In hindsight.
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #929 on: September 20, 2020, 11:22:33 AM »


A very nice recording on the recently reconstructed organ in Trinity church of Gdansk, what is a complete reconstruction of an 18th century Polish organ in a highly elaborate original 17th century case, reassembled after being whisked away to safety from falling bombs in WWII. (I think these old Polish organ cases are some of the most beautiful ever made - shame that a lot have since been destroyed, or no longer contain their original innards) Lots of different music, we have everything from Frescobaldi, Sweelinck, to early Bach (bwv 561) without feeling too much like this is someone's dissertation recital. Andrzej Szadejko playing is good, with a lot of "drive," and he also gives us lots of opportunities to hear the different stops of the newly-minted organ.

The last track is a jolly mash-up, so to say, of Bach's and Buxtehude's passacaglias, by a certain "Andreas Nicholas Shade" :) Really worth hearing!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 11:43:59 AM by bioluminescentsquid »

Online vers la flamme

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #930 on: October 18, 2020, 06:00:03 AM »
I go through phases with organ music, times that I really like it, and other times that I can't stand the sound of the instrument at all. I'm in a pro-organ phase and have generally been starting my days recently with organ music by Max Reger. I have Vols. 1 & 4 from the Naxos series and they both sound incredible—which others are worth a listen?

The Naxos "Organ Encyclopedia" series is amazing. Some other favorites include a disc by Jean Langlais, a blind French organist-composer of the 20th century, and Julia Brown's Buxtehude recordings.

Anyone else listening to organ music lately, on Naxos or otherwise...?

Online Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #931 on: October 18, 2020, 08:02:47 AM »
I go through phases with organ music, times that I really like it, and other times that I can't stand the sound of the instrument at all. I'm in a pro-organ phase and have generally been starting my days recently with organ music by Max Reger. I have Vols. 1 & 4 from the Naxos series and they both sound incredible—which others are worth a listen?

The Naxos "Organ Encyclopedia" series is amazing. Some other favorites include a disc by Jean Langlais, a blind French organist-composer of the 20th century, and Julia Brown's Buxtehude recordings.

Anyone else listening to organ music lately, on Naxos or otherwise...?

Try some of the Scheidemann on Naxos. There are some good things there. And the Rübsam Pachelbel too.

The last organ recording I heard was the one with Doeselaar  and Wiersinger at Groningen - but I didn’t enjoy it much. Oh, and I listened to some Heinrich Isaac masses with organ alternatim.

And yes, I remember now, I played this which is always a treat

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 08:07:46 AM by Mandryka »
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Online vers la flamme

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #932 on: October 18, 2020, 08:34:42 AM »
^I actually just bought this:



There's vols. 1 & 2 also at the same store where I got this, so if I like it, I'll probably jump on those. I know nothing of Scheidemann except that he was a student of Sweelinck.

Online Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #933 on: October 18, 2020, 08:51:18 AM »
^I actually just bought this:



There's vols. 1 & 2 also at the same store where I got this, so if I like it, I'll probably jump on those. I know nothing of Scheidemann except that he was a student of Sweelinck.

Nice modern baroque style organ - clean sounding without the thrilling partials of the real McCoy but perfectly listenable - make sure you play it through something with a good bass response. You’re listening to a powerful machine. Brown plays beautifully IMO, fluid and inflected with really natural hesitations, tempos let you smell the roses without ever losing the move forward. What a shame she didn’t come to Europe to record it on an organ Scheidemann himself used!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 09:08:02 AM by Mandryka »
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Online vers la flamme

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #934 on: October 18, 2020, 12:48:49 PM »
Maybe it is too bad, indeed, but still it's one of the best sounding organs I've ever heard on disc! (Disclaimer, I've only heard about 5.) I love the tone of that thing. She plays the same instrument on the Buxtehude disc that I've had for several months now.

Online Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #935 on: October 18, 2020, 01:39:07 PM »
Yes it’s fabulous, powerful - this afternoon I listened to it on small speakers but now on my big system it sounds amazing, you must go to Oregon just to hear it. The church acoustic sounds impressive on disc - imagine in real life.

Do you like all the dissonances? That’s from the tuning - I can’t find the details but it’s certainly far from the equal tuning of a piano, and Scheidemann really uses that in the music. It’s quite a shock to people who aren’t used to it, they hear it as out of tune, but that’s because they’re just not familiar with such intense dissonance.


I’m listening to Brown play the magnificat on that disc. Scheidemann is famous for a cycle of (I think) seven that he left.

(Oh I found something about the organ here - it’s tuned with Kellner’s Bach temperament

https://web.archive.org/web/20110503004223/http://www.welcometocentral.org/specs.html)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 01:47:23 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #936 on: October 18, 2020, 04:30:20 PM »
I go through phases with organ music, times that I really like it, and other times that I can't stand the sound of the instrument at all. I'm in a pro-organ phase and have generally been starting my days recently with organ music by Max Reger. I have Vols. 1 & 4 from the Naxos series and they both sound incredible—which others are worth a listen?

The Naxos "Organ Encyclopedia" series is amazing. Some other favorites include a disc by Jean Langlais, a blind French organist-composer of the 20th century, and Julia Brown's Buxtehude recordings.

Anyone else listening to organ music lately, on Naxos or otherwise...?

I've played that Brombaugh! His organs are some of the best-sounding of his "generation" (1970-80's), before the major North German organs like Norden, Groningen and Hamburg were restored and there was a lot of guesswork on how they should have sounded.
I actually didn't like the acoustic in person or in CD, a bit too dry. But put it in a resonant old European church and I bet it will sound like the Scherer in Tangermünde.
(I actually like the Sweden Brombaugh used by Karin Nelson in vol. 2 the most.)

Kellner's temperament is one of my favorites, you can play in all keys without things being too sour, but it gives a strong "meantone" feel for me.

Re: Dissonances, according to Ibo Ortgies, by the time of Scheidemann almost all of the big Hamburg organs were updated with enharmonic "subsemitones" so you could play more pure intervals while still in meantone, so some of the stronger dissonances could be avoided. That being said, it sounds great in regular meantone!

About Naxos:
The Weckmann recordings by Zerer are unbeatable. Played in Weckmann's own church, St. Jacobi in Hamburg, too, the "real McCoy."


Other good things: Krebs by Gerhard Gann, Muffat by Haselböck, Pachelbel by Rübsam
possibly also the 2 CD's of van Noordt (a bit straight-laced playing of already rather straight-laced music though, I'm enjoying Gerard de Wit playing van Noordt now instead)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 04:48:27 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Online vers la flamme

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #937 on: October 18, 2020, 04:47:26 PM »
^Wow, I'm jealous! I've never played a (pipe) organ; the closest I've gotten is a couple of old Hammond and Vox electric organs, which are badass in their own right (meaning for a completely different kind of music). It must be an amazing feeling being behind the wheel of one of those beasts.

Thanks for the tips; I know nothing about Weckmann. Don't think I've even heard his name before. But I'll have to check out that disc!

@Mandryka, yeah, I like the tuning. Not organ, but I recently heard a Louis Couperin disc and was impressed with the unusual tuning, so I'll take this opportunity to briefly mention it...:



Anyway, next time I'm out in Oregon I'll have to swing by Central Lutheran in Eugene, for sure. Complete opposite side of the country from me, but whatever  ;D

I'm listening to that Magnificat now. Damn, it's good.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 04:51:48 PM by vers la flamme »

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #938 on: October 18, 2020, 04:55:20 PM »
Anyway, next time I'm out in Oregon I'll have to swing by Central Lutheran, for sure. Complete opposite side of the country from me, but whatever  ;D

I see you're in Atlanta! The best Baroque-style organ builder in the area is Richards, Fowkes & co, founded by Brombaugh students - maybe you can visit one of their organs! I think Taylor and Boody (based in Virginia) might also have some instruments nearby.
https://www.richardsfowkes.com/index.php

Online vers la flamme

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #939 on: October 18, 2020, 05:04:04 PM »
I see you're in Atlanta! The best Baroque-style organ builder in the area is Richards, Fowkes & co, founded by Brombaugh students - maybe you can visit one of their organs! I think Taylor and Boody (based in Virginia) might also have some instruments nearby.
https://www.richardsfowkes.com/index.php

Wow, thanks! Seriously, I have no idea about any of this stuff, but I find it fascinating. Those look beautiful. I wonder if they'll take me on as an apprentice ;D It seems like fascinating work. Failing that, I'll still have to track one down to hear what a great Baroque organ sounds like in person...