Author Topic: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread  (Read 179823 times)

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Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #880 on: December 10, 2019, 02:22:09 PM »
Hey, thanks for ruining it, man! I used to also like mint chip ice cream until someone told me they thought it tasted like toothpaste!  :P
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #881 on: December 10, 2019, 03:51:33 PM »
I saw her play her organ in a concert a couple of years ago with Servir Antico, and really didn’t enjoy it. Everything seemed flat, no relief. But friends of mine, some of whom are really much more involved in early music than I am - people who play portative organ in ensembles etc - seemed to love her and couldn’t see my problem. And she seems to get good people to work with her - e.g. Marc Mauillon. So I put it down to a bad seat in the church and dyspepsia after too much Dutch ale.

Wouldn't say "flat," but it's just music outside of my comfort zone. Was quite relieved when she launched back into some Andrea Antico.

On the bright side, that would mean that your toothpaste tastes like mint chip ice cream.
I like my current toothpaste because it tastes like root beer. :)

Offline dissily Mordentroge

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #882 on: December 16, 2019, 03:15:55 PM »
I may have posted this on the Bach organ thread previously. As I keep returning to it again and again I’ve decided it can’t have too much exposure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuoxijdFKA0&list=RDEMyzLcZ08HYttup5zYBdsHww

Offline JBS

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #883 on: December 24, 2019, 08:15:56 PM »
Crosspost from the main listening thread

According to Amazon MP, this set is almost worth its weight in gold



NP
CD 8
9 CDs in this set are chorale settings; this is the seventh of those nine, featuring chorales whose source hymns have titles starting in O and N (the chorales are sorted alphabetically in this set).
Given the nature and era of the music, comparisons to Bach's chorale settings are natural. Suffice it to say Walther does not suffer by the comparison.

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #884 on: December 29, 2019, 03:20:02 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/1qvBENRUGbU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/1qvBENRUGbU</a>

Very nice early c19 organ here,  Saint-Gervais, Geneva, restored under the direction of Lionel Rogg I think, here being used for a Roberday fugue by Adrien Pièce.
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Offline Forever Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #885 on: February 29, 2020, 10:26:54 PM »
Listened the set on YT. Some compositions are very good while many of them exhibit the influence from JSB. Execution is good/fair. I am not crazy about the organ and recording quality. Interesting album.

https://www.amazon.com/Johann-Gottfried-Muthel-Complete-Organ/dp/B00QG15KVQ

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #886 on: March 01, 2020, 02:49:16 PM »


A release to watch out for - features alternatim verses improvised(?) by Lorenzo Ghielmi on the 1442 Rysum organ.
A wonderful article about this organ by Christopher Holman: http://www.voxhumanajournal.com/rysum.html

Anyone heard Catalina Vicens' latest release? It's already available on youtube. In general this type of organ music isn't my cup of tea (as mentioned above), but I'm curious about how people think of it. Features the organs in Krewerd (1531/ possibly older?) and Ostönnen (~1425), both stately old ladies that deserve to be heard more.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 02:59:23 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline hvbias

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #887 on: March 14, 2020, 07:43:14 AM »
The documentary Martinikerk Rondeau- does anyone know if there is a way to watch this/buy this online as a download or streaming? My Blu-Ray player sometimes has issues with all region DVDs.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #888 on: March 14, 2020, 10:48:43 AM »



Anyone heard Catalina Vicens' latest release? It's already available on youtube. In general this type of organ music isn't my cup of tea (as mentioned above), but I'm curious about how people think of it. Features the organs in Krewerd (1531/ possibly older?) and Ostönnen (~1425), both stately old ladies that deserve to be heard more.



Yes, she's up to some pretty imaginative stuff with those little organs and you know I like them. And I know everyone likes Vicens . . . but me, in everything I've heard from her, whether live or on record, I've been underwhelmed. It's me, not her. I think.

The Rysum CD I'd like to hear but they seem to be having distribution problems -- and I want to wait till it comes on streaming platforms, I'm too mean to pay for it.
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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #889 on: March 14, 2020, 10:57:16 AM »
The documentary Martinikerk Rondeau- does anyone know if there is a way to watch this/buy this online as a download or streaming? My Blu-Ray player sometimes has issues with all region DVDs.

Not that I know of.

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #890 on: March 14, 2020, 12:42:07 PM »
Yes, she's up to some pretty imaginative stuff with those little organs and you know I like them. And I know everyone likes Vicens . . . but me, in everything I've heard from her, whether live or on record, I've been underwhelmed. It's me, not her. I think.

The Rysum CD I'd like to hear but they seem to be having distribution problems -- and I want to wait till it comes on streaming platforms, I'm too mean to pay for it.

Me too (for both)
Also, I should be corrected - I don't think Ghielmi improvises on the disc, it's all authentic 15th century music.

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #891 on: April 01, 2020, 04:38:49 PM »


As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, this is an exciting new Sweelinck recording, on exciting organs too! The organ in Oederquart, a reconstruction of an early (and rather big organ) of Arp Schnitger, is heard for the first time (?) on record here and sounds marvelous. Also featured are the ancient Ostönnen organ and the "Swallow's-nest" organ at Lemgo, again a very nicely reconstructed organ that sounds extremely convincing and if anything better than some original organs I know, with lots of curious rennaissance sounds - Barpfeiff, Zinke, Cimbell, Gemshorenfloyt etc. - packed into its little antique case. It was one of my favorite organs on the beauty pageant of organs that was the Glossa Sweelinck set and I'm happy to hear it here.
(There are harpsichord recordings on here too, but naturally I've only listened to the organ recordings as of now)

Rather like Vincent van Laar, Daniele Boccaccio's main strength is with his consistently creative and colorful registrations. He seems to have a penchant for chirpy little reeds and zimbels that I very much share.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 04:43:00 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #892 on: April 02, 2020, 07:59:13 AM »


As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, this is an exciting new Sweelinck recording, on exciting organs too! The organ in Oederquart, a reconstruction of an early (and rather big organ) of Arp Schnitger, is heard for the first time (?) on record here and sounds marvelous. Also featured are the ancient Ostönnen organ and the "Swallow's-nest" organ at Lemgo, again a very nicely reconstructed organ that sounds extremely convincing and if anything better than some original organs I know, with lots of curious rennaissance sounds - Barpfeiff, Zinke, Cimbell, Gemshorenfloyt etc. - packed into its little antique case. It was one of my favorite organs on the beauty pageant of organs that was the Glossa Sweelinck set and I'm happy to hear it here.
(There are harpsichord recordings on here too, but naturally I've only listened to the organ recordings as of now)

Rather like Vincent van Laar, Daniele Boccaccio's main strength is with his consistently creative and colorful registrations. He seems to have a penchant for chirpy little reeds and zimbels that I very much share.

Well I thought I'd approach this scientifically, I thought I'd choose a random sample of . . . one piece. What came up was the Toccata ut re blahblahblah SwWV  263.

I thought it was a wonderful, exuberant, life enhancing performance! It totally takes off, flies up to heaven, breaks free of the rails etc.

The organ sounds "clean", it doesn't resonate much, it makes a nice pure sound. And that lets him give the music some of the cut and thrust and turbulence of a harpsichord performance. The only other organ performance I had at hand was Winsemius at Edam, completely different and I don't know if Bocaccio doesn't pip him.

The organ (which one is it? I don't have any notes on spotify) sounds equally tuned to me, but I could well be proved wrong.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 08:01:51 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #893 on: April 02, 2020, 10:07:02 AM »
Well I thought I'd approach this scientifically, I thought I'd choose a random sample of . . . one piece. What came up was the Toccata ut re blahblahblah SwWV  263.

I thought it was a wonderful, exuberant, life enhancing performance! It totally takes off, flies up to heaven, breaks free of the rails etc.

The organ sounds "clean", it doesn't resonate much, it makes a nice pure sound. And that lets him give the music some of the cut and thrust and turbulence of a harpsichord performance. The only other organ performance I had at hand was Winsemius at Edam, completely different and I don't know if Bocaccio doesn't pip him.

The organ (which one is it? I don't have any notes on spotify) sounds equally tuned to me, but I could well be proved wrong.

The booklet: https://www.brilliantclassics.com/media/1621727/95643-sweelinck-digital-booklet-01.pdf

You mean Sweelinck's Hexachord (Ut re mi fa sol la) fantasia? It's on the Lemgo organ, definitely tuned in 1/4 comma meantone. The fantasia does stay fairly well in the bounds of meantone temperament without too many "blue notes" (as in the Fantasia Cromatica), I don't think it ever modulates - and remember meantone is sort of an "equal temperament" too since the intervals of the "good keys" are the same.

I'm not so familiar with Winsemius at Edam, but I was very impressed by his performance of the same fantasia, also at Lemgo, on the Glossa set (volume 1). Rather more sedate and less colorful, but more subtle performance that that of Bocaccio.

The NM Sweelinck set (which I know you like) has it as Fantasia F1, with Liuwe Tamminga at Pistonia.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 10:26:19 AM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #894 on: April 02, 2020, 10:25:26 AM »
The booklet: https://www.brilliantclassics.com/media/1621727/95643-sweelinck-digital-booklet-01.pdf

You mean Sweelinck's Hexachord (Ut re mi fa sol la) fantasia? It's on the Lemgo organ, definitely tuned in 1/4 comma meantone. The fantasia does stay fairly well in the bounds of meantone temperament without too many "blue notes" (as in the Fantasia Cromatica) - and remember meantone is sort of an "equal temperament" too since the intervals of the "good keys" are the same.

I'm not so familiar with Winsemius at Edam, but I was very impressed by his performance of the same fantasia, also at Lemgo, on the Glossa set (volume 1). Rather more sedate and less colorful, but more subtle performance that that of Bocaccio.

I don't have Glossa V 1 -- i may have to do something about that --  thanks for the booklet.
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #895 on: April 02, 2020, 04:56:02 PM »


As displeased as Sweelinck looks on the cover, this is an exciting new Sweelinck recording, on exciting organs too! The organ in Oederquart, a reconstruction of an early (and rather big organ) of Arp Schnitger, is heard for the first time (?) on record here and sounds marvelous. Also featured are the ancient Ostönnen organ and the "Swallow's-nest" organ at Lemgo, again a very nicely reconstructed organ that sounds extremely convincing and if anything better than some original organs I know, with lots of curious rennaissance sounds - Barpfeiff, Zinke, Cimbell, Gemshorenfloyt etc. - packed into its little antique case. It was one of my favorite organs on the beauty pageant of organs that was the Glossa Sweelinck set and I'm happy to hear it here.
(There are harpsichord recordings on here too, but naturally I've only listened to the organ recordings as of now)

Rather like Vincent van Laar, Daniele Boccaccio's main strength is with his consistently creative and colorful registrations. He seems to have a penchant for chirpy little reeds and zimbels that I very much share.

I just heard an exemplary rendition of the "Mein junges Leben" variations on here, not so much mournful as charming and virtuosic, a paradoxically giddy romp through the stops of the Oederquart organ. I especially liked the "surprise appearance" of full organ and the cymbelstern (little wind-driven bells) in the penultimate variation, then slowly fading away on a lone principal, then a lone flute in the last...

Boccaccio's a rather "secular" Sweelinck performer, often breathing maybe a tad bit too much life into Sweelinck's famously learned, even pedantic counterpoint. While I do prefer the more level-headed approach which most performers take, I like it. But he's not so successful in the sombre and stately psalm variations, I think. (Although I will probably recant that opinion very soon, knowing who I am)


If you can find it (it is on Naxos), this is a great Sweelinck recording. Might be one of my favorites, actually.

I think performers should play more of Sweelinck's variation sets on organ. Most Sweelinck set recordings have them played on harpsichords/virginals, since according to Dirksen, the keyboard range and secular content would indicate that they were played on harpsichord instead of organ. But they're great for demonstrating the range of sounds and effects an organ can produce, much more so than long, rambling fantasias or toccatas played on full organ.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 05:08:42 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #896 on: April 03, 2020, 01:10:13 AM »


If you can find it (it is on Naxos), this is a great Sweelinck recording. Might be one of my favorites, actually.

I think performers should play more of Sweelinck's variation sets on organ. Most Sweelinck set recordings have them played on harpsichords/virginals, since according to Dirksen, the keyboard range and secular content would indicate that they were played on harpsichord instead of organ. But they're great for demonstrating the range of sounds and effects an organ can produce, much more so than long, rambling fantasias or toccatas played on full organ.

Thanks for pointing that out, it does indeed sound rather good.

I just heard an exemplary rendition of the "Mein junges Leben" variations on here, not so much mournful as charming and virtuosic, a paradoxically giddy romp through the stops of the Oederquart organ.


I have to say I'm  a harpsichord man for this, more cut and thrust, but I'll listen to some organ recordings later -- listening with great pleasure to Egarr now -- a very colourful and refined instrument there.




Boccaccio's a rather "secular" Sweelinck performer, often breathing maybe a tad bit too much life into Sweelinck's famously learned, even pedantic counterpoint. While I do prefer the more level-headed approach which most performers take, I like it. But he's not so successful in the sombre and stately psalm variations, I think. (Although I will probably recant that opinion very soon, knowing who I am)



Recant NOW! As far as I know Sweelinck was a secular organist, he was employed to give concerts to entertain anyone who happened to be in the Amsterdam church. Organ music had nothing to do with church services, it was strictly forbidden. (WARNING -- my entire knowledge of this comes from Egarr's essay for his Sweelinck CD!)

Boccacio's Froberger was also "secular" -- I called it "Italian" rather than secular (vigorous, polished) but I think I was hearing what you're hearing.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 11:01:11 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #897 on: April 03, 2020, 10:15:01 PM »
Thanks for bringing these to my attention. The Boccacio Sweelinck and the new Vicens are now both on my wish list for future purchase. In fact, this very moment I am FLAC-ing Vicens' Il Cembalo de Partenope A Renaissance Harpischord Tale, played on the oldest playable harpsichord in existence.

My next listening project is the Reger organ works--I received the complete Naxos set as a Christmas gift and am just getting around to them now. I have a couple of these as individual disks, listened to previously.

Any thoughts on approaching this intimidating ouevre?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:17:50 PM by XB-70 Valkyrie »
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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #898 on: April 05, 2020, 04:35:02 PM »
Recant NOW! As far as I know Sweelinck was a secular organist, he was employed to give concerts to entertain anyone who happened to be in the Amsterdam church. Organ music had nothing to do with church services, it was strictly forbidden. (WARNING -- my entire knowledge of this comes from Egarr's essay for his Sweelinck CD!)

Boccacio's Froberger was also "secular" -- I called it "Italian" rather than secular (vigorous, polished) but I think I was hearing what you're hearing.

You're correct, Sweelinck was employed by the city rather than the church to improvise on psalms so people would know what to sing in the unaccompanied services. I think "Italian" is a much better term than"secular," I was trying to describe Boccacio's playing rather than the music itself - although Huygens' complaints of overly showy playing by organists in these daily concerts also come to mind.

I just listened to Egarr, and I understand why you like Boccacio. :)
Egarr is a bit too whimsical and colorful for me. He'd sound perfect in Scheidemann, though.

Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread
« Reply #899 on: April 16, 2020, 01:06:24 PM »
Do any of youse guys ever turn around in your listening chair so that you face away from the (speakers) organ, as you would in most churches?

I do this on occasion with my computer speakers, and I find the perspective is very nice. I close my eyes and pretend I am listening in person. No, I don't have subwoofers capable of pounding out 16Hz at 120 db, but, depending on the church, organ, and music, the sound can often be quite soft and subtle.

What if any modifications to setup might help with this? Any thoughts on this depraved practice?
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff