The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread

[kishnevi]

Niche market recordings will do that sometimes.  And I think any set which includes entries such as "Organ Music for Four Hands and Four Feet" and "Transylvanian Organ Music from the Renaissance to the Present"
qualifes as a niche market recording.

[prémont]

New release. It is hard to get my head around this: ArsMusici licensing 10 recordings to be sold by Membran in a box set for 13 euros...??

Amazing.....



Q

I own much of  this already, but the low price justifies the purchase to acquire the rest. Have you got any link to this release?

[Que]

I own much of  this already, but the low price justifies the purchase to acquire the rest. Have you got any link to this release?

I guess I'm lucky to own none...  Which ones do you have and are they any good?

To me it seems that the Zipoli/Ghielmi disc alone should be sufficient to justify the price of admission. Other than that I see some recitals that should be nice and interesting at the least (1-4, 6 & 9)?

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Famous-Organ-Music-from-Europe/hnum/2829815

Q

[prémont]

I guess I'm lucky to own none...  Which ones do you have and are they any good?

To me it seems that the Zipoli/Ghielmi disc alone should be sufficient to justify the price of admission. Other than that I see some recitals that should be nice and interesting at the least (1-4, 6 & 9)?

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Famous-Organ-Music-from-Europe/hnum/2829815

Q

I own vol. 1, 2, 4 and 5 (Zipoli is nice music , not that "great" but well played - I payed as much for it as this box costs). Vol. 1, 4 and 5 are excellent, while vol. 2 is somewhat colorless, like most I have heard from Radulescu.

[Mandryka]

Found on spotify, a release made just a couple of weeks ago I think by the Bibliotheque Nationale de France of her 1956 recording of de Grigny's 1er Livre D'Orgue. The performances seem intense and engrossing.

Can someone comment on the Erato recordings that she made? There's a transfer of this early recording made by Qobuz as part of their studio masters series. Has anyone heard it?

[prémont]

Found on spotify, a release made just a couple of weeks ago I think by the Bibliotheque Nationale de France of her 1956 recording of de Grigny's 1er Livre D'Orgue. The performances seem intense and engrossing.

Can someone comment on the Erato recordings that she made? There's a transfer of this early recording made by Qobuz as part of their studio masters series. Has anyone heard it?

She recorded the Livre d´orgue by Grigny several times. This link may provide some information:

http://www.france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.eng.rch&org=%22Marie-Claire+ALAIN%22&tit=&oeu=de+grigny&ins=&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Search&edi=&nrow=80

I own the Sarlat recording (1967) on LP, and I have owned the Chaise-Dieu recording (1980) on LP but parted with the latter when I changed to CD for good, thinking that the Sarlat recording is much superior. I also own one half of the Poitiers recording (1996) thanks to a kind member of this forum. I have never heard the Paris St. Merry recording (1956).

Actually she also recorded an almost complete Bach integral (we may call it Alain 0 as opposed to Alain I, II and III) on the St.Merry organ, Paris in the 1950es, but this is the first time I have seen any of her St. Merry recordings released on CD. I consider this rather French type organ better suited for Grigny than for Bach, but I have not investigated the topic further, since it would demand a lot of resources, and I believe, that these early recordings are going to disappoint us, who know her later recordings of the same music.

[Mandryka]

She recorded the Livre d´orgue by Grigny several times. This link may provide some information:

http://www.france-orgue.fr/disque/index.php?zpg=dsq.eng.rch&org=%22Marie-Claire+ALAIN%22&tit=&oeu=de+grigny&ins=&cdo=1&dvo=1&vno=1&cmd=Search&edi=&nrow=80

I own the Sarlat recording (1967) on LP, and I have owned the Chaise-Dieu recording (1980) on LP but parted with the latter when I changed to CD for good, thinking that the Sarlat recording is much superior. I also own one half of the Poitiers recording (1996) thanks to a kind member of this forum. I have never heard the Paris St. Merry recording (1956).

Actually she also recorded an almost complete Bach integral (we may call it Alain 0 as opposed to Alain I, II and III) on the St.Merry organ, Paris in the 1950es, but this is the first time I have seen any of her St. Merry recordings released on CD. I consider this rather French type organ better suited for Grigny than for Bach, but I have not investigated the topic further, since it would demand a lot of resources, and I believe, that these early recordings are going to disappoint us, who know her later recordings of the same music.

Ah. This is the sort of thing I like -- great music and lots of different performances by a fine musician.

I've just ordered this, though I've actually no clear idea of the date of the recording. Nearly all of her Erato recordings of de Grigny have disappeared as far as I can see -- I'l have to wait till they come out again as downloads.



In the meantime I'll try to listen to Isoir. I haven't managed to get into the way Verlet plays de Grigny, but I'll give it another shot.

[prémont]

I've just ordered this, though I've actually no clear idea of the date of the recording. Nearly all of her Erato recordings of de Grigny have disappeared as far as I can see -- I'l have to wait till they come out again as downloads.



In the meantime I'll try to listen to Isoir. I haven't managed to get into the way Verlet plays de Grigny, but I'll give it another shot.

The Alain you ordered is the Poitiers recording (1996), her last recording of the work.

I am not a great fan of Isoir - his performance is too polished to my taste. I have not listened to Vernet more than once, so I am in your situation. Among a few others I also own a recording by my countryman Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen on the organ of St. Maxim in Provence. This is one of the most colorful recordings of the Livre I know. This organ is a splendid vehicle for Grigny´s music.

[Mookalafalas]

New release. It is hard to get my head around this: ArsMusici licensing 10 recordings to be sold by Membran in a box set for 13 euros...??

Amazing.....
Q

  Generally Membran doesn't license anything. In Germany music copyright expires after 50 years, or so I understand from reading about this particular label. Their best stuff is generally 51 years old
   BTW, I'm not criticizing them. I LOOOOOVE membran, and own over 400 of their discs. (the Meister Konzerte 100 CD box is my favorite historical classical box. The 100 CD Modern Jazz is also awesome).

[jlaurson]

  Generally Membran doesn't license anything...

They don't license anything... and they're cavalier about stealing other label's remasterings. Shoddy, cheap, and semi-legal.

[Mandryka]

The Alain you ordered is the Poitiers recording (1996), her last recording of the work.

I am not a great fan of Isoir - his performance is too polished to my taste. I have not listened to Vernet more than once, so I am in your situation. Among a few others I also own a recording by my countryman Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen on the organ of St. Maxim in Provence. This is one of the most colorful recordings of the Livre I know. This organ is a splendid vehicle for Grigny´s music.

I've been focusing on two hymns -- Pange Lingua and Ave Maris Stella.

I think you're too harsh about Isoir, at least in this music. I didn't think the readings were too polished, I thought that the performances were very moving in fact -- and I believe he was trying to respond to the ideas expressed in the hymn verses. Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen seemed too consistently severe. To take an example, I thought there was more of a sense of mystery in the big five part fugue in Pange Lingue in Isoir than in  Mikkelson.  Isoir seemed more humane, forgiving, loving in the 4 part fugue in the Ave Maris Stella: that seemed to find the necessary emotional contrast with the music which preceded it, and to reflect the hymn's idea of Mary as someone who can "Dissolve the chains of the guilty, proffer light to the blind. . . "  Don should listen to Mikkelsen if he's interested in the music and doesn't know it already, it strikes me as a performance he may well appreciate.

I didn't like the singing on Mikkelsen's recording, which seemed a saccharine. I very much liked the singing on Isoir's CD (Ensemble Vocal Sagittarius), they discovered the plainchant text in Rheims, and very beautiful it is too.

Another recording which I enjoyed was Bernard Coudurier's.

[prémont]

I've been focusing on two hymns -- Pange Lingua and Ave Maris Stella.

I think you're too harsh about Isoir, at least in this music. I didn't think the readings were too polished, I thought that the performances were very moving in fact -- and I believe he was trying to respond to the ideas expressed in the hymn verses. Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen seemed too consistently severe. To take an example, I thought there was more of a sense of mystery in the big five part fugue in Pange Lingue in Isoir than in  Mikkelson.  Isoir seemed more humane, forgiving, loving in the 4 part fugue in the Ave Maris Stella: that seemed to find the necessary emotional contrast with the music which preceded it, and to reflect the hymn's idea of Mary as someone who can "Dissolve the chains of the guilty, proffer light to the blind. . . "  Don should listen to Mikkelson if he's interested in the music and doesn't know it already, it strikes me as a performance he may well appreciate.

Maybe I am biased concerning Isoir. Or maybe I prefer this music played a little more severe than Isoir does.

I didn't like the singing on Mikkelsen's recording, which seemed a saccharine. I very much liked the singing on Isoir's CD (Ensemble Vocal Sagittarius), they discovered the plainchant text in Rheims, and very beautiful it is too.

A CD with liturgical organ music is an abstraction, which IMO cannot recreate the atmosphere of the past, so generally I do not find singing relevant in this context. One can read the text, if one wants to know, what the music is supposed to express.

Another recording which I enjoyed was Bernard Coudurier's.

Unfortunately I only own his recording of the Mass which I have enjoyed (you reminded me of the importance of completing the set with the Hymns).

[prémont]

I've been focusing on two hymns -- Pange Lingua and Ave Maris Stella.

I think you're too harsh about Isoir, at least in this music. I didn't think the readings were too polished, I thought that the performances were very moving in fact -- and I believe he was trying to respond to the ideas expressed in the hymn verses.

I very much liked the singing on Isoir's CD (Ensemble Vocal Sagittarius), they discovered the plainchant text in Rheims, and very beautiful it is too.

There is no singing on the recording by Isoir, which I own, so I wonder, if we are talking about different recordings.

Maybe you are talking about this (if it really is another recording):
http://www.amazon.fr/Les-Cinq-hymnes-Nicolas-Grigny/dp/B00005BCWG/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680291&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=isoir+grigny

I am talking about this (Mass):
http://www.amazon.de/Grigny-Messe-Isoir/dp/B000025V1M/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-2&keywords=isoir+grigny

and this (Hymns):
http://www.amazon.de/Werke-von-Grigny-Marchand-Isoir/dp/B0000264YK/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-4&keywords=isoir+grigny

These two CDs were recorded by Calliope 1972 on two different organs mentioned on the cover.

My main problem with this recording by Isoir is, that he plays general legato and that often suppresses the counterpoint by highlighting the cantus, making the music sound more homophone. This is particularly the case with plenum pieces and pieces, where the hymn is played on the pedal trumpet stop. This is what I mean, when I write polished, as many of the details are underplayed. His interpretation of the hymns sounds IMO generally better than the Mass, maybe reflecting that the Isnard organ in St. Maxim, Provence has got a better tonal balance than the Clicquot organ in Poitiers.

BTW the St. Maxim organ was also used for the recordings of the Livre d ´orgue by Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen and Pierre Bardon. The latter is the principal organist at that organ, if he hasn´t retired by now.

[Mandryka]

There is no singing on the recording by Isoir, which I own, so I wonder, if we are talking about different recordings.

Maybe you are talking about this (if it really is another recording):
http://www.amazon.fr/Les-Cinq-hymnes-Nicolas-Grigny/dp/B00005BCWG/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680291&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=isoir+grigny

I am talking about this (Mass):
http://www.amazon.de/Grigny-Messe-Isoir/dp/B000025V1M/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-2&keywords=isoir+grigny

and this (Hymns):
http://www.amazon.de/Werke-von-Grigny-Marchand-Isoir/dp/B0000264YK/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392680407&sr=1-4&keywords=isoir+grigny

These two CDs were recorded by Calliope 1972 on two different organs mentioned on the cover.

My main problem with this recording by Isoir is, that he plays general legato and that often suppresses the counterpoint by highlighting the cantus, making the music sound more homophone. This is particularly the case with plenum pieces and pieces, where the hymn is played on the pedal trumpet stop. This is what I mean, when I write polished, as many of the details are underplayed. His interpretation of the hymns sounds IMO generally better than the Mass, maybe reflecting that the Isnard organ in St. Maxim, Provence has got a better tonal balance than the Clicquot organ in Poitiers.

BTW the St. Maxim organ was also used for the recordings of the Livre d ´orgue by Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen and Pierre Bardon. The latter is the principal organist at that organ, if he hasn´t retired by now.

Ah yes, the Grigny CD I have is indeed different, this one:



Mikkelsen's sound is definitely sharper than Isoir's, and hence I suppose the counterpoint is clearer - the pedals especially seem  more in forcus with Mikkelsen.

Anyway, I've made another de Grigny discovery, the Veni Creator Spiritus played by Marc Schaefer, on the (wonderful) J A silbermann organ in Villingen Church - CD 6 of that Membran big box which was discussed above. One thing that's taught me is how well the music works a suite  (and I learnt from Neu's Muffat how a S. German Toccata is a suite)

[prémont]

Ah yes, the Grigny CD I have is indeed different, this one:

When and where was this CD (twofer?) recorded? I suppose it is a substantial improvement compared to the Calliope recording.

[Mandryka]

When and where was this CD (twofer?) recorded? I suppose it is a substantial improvement compared to the Calliope recording.

It was reorded in 1992 at the Abaye de Saint Michel in Thiérache. I haven't heard the one you have on Calliope.  It is a twofer, and it includes a motet by Charpentier after the elevation and one by Lully after the Deo Gratis.

[Mandryka]

It's interesting just listening today to Vernet and Isoir (Erato) playng the de Grigny mass - Isoir spirited and bold, and Vernet much more weighty, solemn. It unbelievable music, I feel very enthusiastic about it. I kept thinking of Schnabel and Badura Skoda in the largo of op 10/3 - Schnabel weighty and full of mystical wisdom (Schnabel's Vernet) and Badura Skoda plays it like music written by a young man having a bit of an emotional crisis (PBS is Isoir.) De Grigny was hardly bowed down by the wisdom and cares of age when he wrote this mass, at least not in MY imagination. Anyway, I'm keeping hold of both - both fantastic in their way.

Can you imagine going to a mass and hearing this? I searched the web for someone playing it, the whole thing with a priest and chanting. But no.

[Sammy]

I have two highly enjoyable sets of Grigny's BK. 1 - Chapuis on Astree (1976) and John Grew on Atma (1997-98).  Both are likely oop.

[prémont]

I have two highly enjoyable sets of Grigny's BK. 1 - Chapuis on Astree (1976) and John Grew on Atma (1997-98).  Both are likely oop.

I was fortunate to find the John Grew set at Amazon.fr, so trusting your words I ordered it. I also found the Chapuis recording there, but it is much too expensive.

http://www.amazon.fr/Grigny-Livre-dorgue/dp/B00000IACZ/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392931025&sr=1-13&keywords=grigny

http://www.amazon.fr/GRIGNY-Livre-orgue-Nicolas-Grigny/dp/B000027OJ9/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1392931070&sr=1-2&keywords=grigny+chapuis

[Mandryka]

I'm finding myself getting increasingly interested in German Renaissance organ music. I can't explain why,  I think the music is strong and emotionally open and forthright, not without contrapuntal and harmonic interest. The CDs I've enjoyed most have been Jaroslav Tüma's recording with music by the Hassler Brothers and Joseph Kelemen's CD of music from the Buxheimer Orgelbuch (I've ordered Ton Koopman's Buxheimer record.) I can listen to the music on Keleman's CD for a long time without getting bored. Also Kimberly Marshall's CD of music by Arnolt Schlick (I've just ordered her renaissance compilation CD called Gothic Pipes) Generally I've  found Tachezi's compilation CDs useful.

Glen Wilson has a fascinating and fabulous recording of music published by Elias Ammerbach. Extraordinary sounds. It would be great to have that music on organ!

Anyway I know this music is rarely discussed here - maybe I'm the only one who appreciates it. But I thought it was worth posting just in case anyone can put me on to some good books or recordings.