The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread

[Mandryka]

Gillian Weir plays Roberday on the organ St Leonhardskirch in Basel, by J A Silbermann.

Like Leonhardt and Walcha, she is a serious musician. She avoids shallow musical effects. Her style is measured, noble and somewhat introspective. My bet is that the tuning is not meantone, and hence the dissonances are smoothed out. That may be a good thing or it may be a bad thing. I find the richness and grandeur of the organ not altogether to my liking.

What I will say is that the performance is much more challenging than Chapuis in the same music, just because Chapuis is ready to play for effects and to highlight his own virtuosity. For Weir, that sort of behaviour is unthinkable, anathema. What I'm not yet sure about is whether there's enough content to these fugues to justify her introspective austerity. The more I listen the more I think there is, but I'm not there yet.

[Que]

The more I listen the more I think there is, but I'm not there yet.

So, still on the hunt for perfection.  Honestly, I think Isoir did a fine job and got fair value out of these pieces by Roberday. Not suggesting that it couldn't be bettered upon, but performances are thin on the ground..It also might be the case that you have higher expectations of this music than I do?

Q

[Mandryka]

So, still on the hunt for perfection.  Honestly, I think Isoir did a fine job and got fair value out of these pieces by Roberday. Not suggesting that it couldn't be bettered upon, but performances are thin on the ground..It also might be the case that you have higher expectations of this music than I do?

Q

Maybe. Look, I have the recording by Weir so why not try to make sense of what she was doing? Sure, Roberday isn't as great as Frescobaldi or Froberger, and maybe you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  The approach of the musician is sufficienty original and coherent and considered as to be worth trying to understand nontheless.

As far as "thin on the ground" is concerned, he doesn't do much worse in organ music than L Couperin or Titelouze or Attaignant or Lebègue or Louis Marchand does he? I mean, early French music is an obscure little niche.

[Que]

As far as "thin on the ground" is concerned, he doesn't do much worse in organ music than L Couperin or Titelouze or Attaignant or Lebègue or Louis Marchand does he? I mean, early French music is an obscure little niche.

True. But definitely worthwhile! 

Q

[prémont]

Gillian Weir plays Roberday on the organ St Leonhardskirch in Basel, by J A Silbermann.

Like Leonhardt and Walcha, she is a serious musician. She avoids shallow musical effects. Her style is measured, noble and somewhat introspective. My bet is that the tuning is not meantone, and hence the dissonances are smoothed out. That may be a good thing or it may be a bad thing. I find the richness and grandeur of the organ not altogether to my liking.

What I will say is that the performance is much more challenging than Chapuis in the same music, just because Chapuis is ready to play for effects and to highlight his own virtuosity. For Weir, that sort of behaviour is unthinkable, anathema. What I'm not yet sure about is whether there's enough content to these fugues to justify her introspective austerity. The more I listen the more I think there is, but I'm not there yet.

In the days of LP I used to own Gilian Weir´s Roberday CD. On the sleve the organ was described as a modern Th. Kuhn organ, and I am sure it was equally tuned. No mention of J.A. Silbermann. The sound was sharp and rather thin, not that ingratiating. I did not like Weir´s at the same time lightweight and serious interpretation, I think she killed the music without offering anything else, so I parted with the disc.

At that time my only acquaintance with Roberday´s fugues - other than the score (it was easier to play the fugues myself than to find recordings) - was a recording of five of the fugues played by Claude Terasse (1965) on the organ of the Cathedral of Sarlat, FR (same organ Darasse uses for his Titelouze and similarly to this a part of the Vox French organ music encyclopedia LP). All I know about him is, that he was a pupil of Marie-Claire Alain, but he is actually rather good, giving the fugues a well measured weighty and noble air without being ponderous. See PM.

I think Chapuis´Roberday CD on Astrée is out of print since long, and I have not heard it. But I own this:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Harmonia%2BMundi/HMA195760

However I also find this interpretation somewhat lightweight.

I also own Isoir´s recording (Temperaments)  - was not impressed by the first and only listening some years ago, and I also own another recording, which I only have listened to once:

http://www.amazon.fr/Musique-Pour-LOrgue-Roberday-Raquet/dp/B00004VDBN/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1396205081&sr=1-12&keywords=roberday

If you give me some time, I may do some comparative listening, but not until next weekend.

[Mandryka]

In the days of LP I used to own Gilian Weir´s Roberday CD. On the sleve the organ was described as a modern Th. Kuhn organ, and I am sure it was equally tuned. No mention of J.A. Silbermann. The sound was sharp and rather thin, not that ingratiating. I did not like Weir´s at the same time lightweight and serious interpretation, I think she killed the music without offering anything else, so I parted with the disc.

At that time my only acquaintance with Roberday´s fugues - other than the score (it was easier to play the fugues myself than to find recordings) - was a recording of five of the fugues played by Claude Terasse (1965) on the organ of the Cathedral of Sarlat, FR (same organ Darasse uses for his Titelouze and similarly to this a part of the Vox French organ music encyclopedia LP). All I know about him is, that he was a pupil of Marie-Claire Alain, but he is actually rather good, giving the fugues a well measured weighty and noble air without being ponderous. See PM.

I think Chapuis´Roberday CD on Astrée is out of print since long, and I have not heard it. But I own this:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Harmonia%2BMundi/HMA195760

However I also find this interpretation somewhat lightweight.

I also own Isoir´s recording (Temperaments)  - was not impressed by the first and only listening some years ago, and I also own another recording, which I only have listened to once:

http://www.amazon.fr/Musique-Pour-LOrgue-Roberday-Raquet/dp/B00004VDBN/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1396205081&sr=1-12&keywords=roberday

If you give me some time, I may do some comparative listening, but not until next weekend.

Ah yes, the organ. I just checked more carefully and it turns out that it's by Kuhn based on J A Silbermann's  organs.

I've ordered the CD of these fugues that Chapuis recorded because I was impressed by the LP he made, which I found on youtube (the LP is different from the CD.) It's fast, colouful,  played for effect, as you would expect, but still very attractive I thought.

In the booklet Weir writes this:

When I was in Basel I spent an evening playing through a pile of little known music I had brought along. Some of it was by Roberday. I decided to record it there and then. Music of this period is improvisatory and my delight in its discovery brought a spontaneity which enhances this element. . . I like the quirkiness of this composer, and his energy and sophisticated exuberance.

It strikes me that she can tall the talk but can't walk the walk. Spontaneity, energy, exuberance, improvisation -- these aren't concepts which seem to apply to Gillian Weir.  But I'm intrigued a bit by what she does so I won't condemn the CD till I've given it a few more tries.

[Que]

Ok guys.....could you help me out on here?

I am looking for some really good Gringy discs!

Since the French organ music world is still largely an enigma to me - with its aray of organists hardly known outside of France that record for tiny or miniscule labels that are seldom reviewed in the international press - I really need some guidance.

Knowing me, you'll probably know I am looking for historically informed performances on proper period instruments (HIPPI). 

Looking forward to you suggestions!

Q

[prémont]

Ok guys.....could you help me out on here?

I am looking for some really good Gringy discs!

Knowing me, you'll probably know I am looking for historically informed performances on proper period instruments (HIPPI). 

Mandryka and I discussed recordings of Le premier Livre d´orgue by de Grigny above, not long time ago.

The first of my two preferred rescordings (among the ones I know) is the first complete recording (Erato LP 1965) by Marie-Claire Alain on the organ of the Cathedral of Sarlat, FR. But I have never seen this released on CD. She rerecorded the Livre on other organs twice (1980 LP only and 1996/8 CD), but neither of these I find compare(s) to the first recording (I have only heard the Missa from the 1998 recording), even if they still are recommendable.

The other is Sven-Ingvart Mikkelsen´s recording for Danish ClassicCD, a colorful and opulent recording. Mandryka finds it to my surprise too severe.

I think that the sets by Pierre Bardon (Pierre Verany) and Bernard Coudurier (BNL) are recommendable too, and recently I acquired a nice set (recommended by Don) by John Grew (Athma), but haven´t heard it but once, which also is the case with the recording of Vernet (Ligia digial), the first impression was by the way favorable.

As I wrote above I am no friend of Isoir´s first recording (Calliope). I have not heard his second on Erato, which Mandryka likes. Grunenwald (Accord) cam be forgotten IMO. I have not heard Chapuis´recording.

[Menschenstimme]

I enjoy all of the organ CDs on the Telarc label.  I also have many other organ CDs, including several on the D&G label.

[Mandryka]

Re Grigny, my feelings haven't moved on since the recent discussion here. Like Verlet in the mass (haven't heard the hymns, which isn't on spotify for some reason), liked Isoir in hymns and mass on Erato. I also felt positive about Coudurier. I should say that I like to hear this with some nice chanting, and that aspect is influencing my judgements.

Actually one way my feelings have moved on is that I've found a composer I like nearly as much as Grigny - that's Boyvin. If anyone has any suggestions about his music then I'd be interested.

(I have CDs by Schoonbroodt and Heurtematte. Isoir's Boyvin CD is really disappointing by the way. Haven't heard Chapuis.)

[Que]

Thanks you guys for all the Grigny recommendations so far!

Q

[Que]

Hey, Que, look at this! 

Yes, when listening to this for the first time two days ago, I also thought of Que.

The playing is state of the art, and the newly built organ seems to have taken its model - as to sound - from the Scherer organ in Tangermünde. And what a beautiful neo-North German prospect.

I must say that for a moment I was confusing this apparently new issue with this older (2003) one:

.

But thanks guys, for pointing it out to me. The good news is that Ablitzer might have found his new "home" at Ligia. Hopefully there is more to come...

Anyway I encountered a slightly qualified recommendation of the new recording - on account of Albitzer's playing - on this Dutch organ site: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orgelnieuws.nl%2Fl-ecole-du-nord%2F&edit-text=

Do the comments make sense? (Apart from the confusing, automated translation gibberish? )

Q

[North Star]

..And here's a link to the Amz FR product page, complete with samples..

[prémont]

But thanks guys, for pointing it out to me. The good news is that Ablitzer might have found his new "home" at Ligia. Hopefully there is more to come...

Anyway I encountered a slightly qualified recommendation of the new recording - on account of Albitzer's playing - on this Dutch organ site: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orgelnieuws.nl%2Fl-ecole-du-nord%2F&edit-text=
Do the comments make sense? (Apart from the confusing, automated translation gibberish? )
Q

Relistening to this to day confirms my first impression. I think the Dutch reviewer is much too strict.

The organ is an outstanding early Baroque North German style-copy, rather Scherer than Schnitger, the flute stops are softer and the mixtures milder than Schnitger´s, and the recorded sound is excellent and well defined. Ablitzers interpretation is expressive and flawless, with well chosen registrations - displaying the instrument very well, and his pace is noble and fluent without any rush (or dragging). His articulation is sufficently detached without too much legato.  This CD is a must have.

[Que]

Relistening to this to day confirms my first impression. I think the Dutch reviewer is much too strict. [...]

This CD is a must have.

Yay!   Music to my ears.... Thanks, and Gordo for his comments too.

Q

[listener]

I have just enjoyed my first listen to the 'new' organ by Eule in Duisberg's Mercatorhalle on Acousence  21 410.  It is built in the English turn-of-the-century tradition of concert organs rather than sacred ones.  Three 32' pedal stops.
An interesting program, if the period attracts, including the original Symphony for Organ and Orch. by Guilmant op.42 usually heard as an organ sonata solo., Jongen's Sonata Eroica and the Lemare transcription of the overture to Wagner's Rienzi.  The Thalben-Ball Variations on a theme of Paganini are new to me.
Thomas Trotter and Iveta Apkalna are organists with the Duisburg Philharmonic
Detailed notes  and description of the organ are in the booklet.    There are no chorale settings, if that's what you are looking for.

[Mandryka]

I'm going to upload Daniel Chorzempa's Liszt recordings on symphonyshare today. Let me know if you want them but can't get them from there. The performances have never been off LP apart from the variations on Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Sagen. I thought they were worth transfering because they're not too flash, they're even introspective at times, and I like that more than the usual way with Liszt.

[Marc]

Just to enjoy: Pierre Bardon demonstrating Les Grandes Orgues Historiques de la Basilique Sainte-Marie-Madeleine du Couvent Royal de Saint-Maximin-la-Sainte-Baume, Provence, France, built by Jean-Esprit Isnard and his nephew Joseph Isnard, around 1775.

http://www.youtube.com/v/WlfcuawEUvg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlfcuawEUvg

[Mandryka]

My latest discovery on spotify is Giorgio Questa. Worth hearing - I've been listening to a mass by Jacques Brunel, new music for me, but there's lots of other stuff, including a lot of Frescobaldi and Brahms and the inevitable JSB.



Here's a thread about him on an organ forum

http://www.organmatters.com/index.php?topic=820.0

[Mandryka]

Listening to this, the thought actually crossed my mind that it's all been downhill since Arnolt Schlick. Nonsense of course, but such is the strength of Kimberly Marshall's advocacy, and such is the integrity, the candour, of the music and the music making.

Anyway what I really want to say is, Arnolt's good. And Kimberly Marshall's neo-early organ sounds good to me.