The Organ, Master of them all - general organ thread

Started by Harry, January 08, 2008, 01:08:57 AM

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Moonfish

What are your thoughts about this recent compilation of French Organ music performed by Alain?

[asin] B00M8AQZFO[/asin]
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mandryka

#321


Bernard Foccroulle plays Weckmann on the restored organ of St Katherine's Church Hamburg.

The registrations are natural, beautiful, and somehow exotic - I'm reminded of the registrations that Kelemen used in his Weckmann CD.  Organ lovers will want this not just for the organ, but also for Foccroulle's conception of the music, which is distinctive not just for it's modesty and seriousness, but also because his legato and long phrasing results in a calm coherent forward movement.

I love Weckmann for some reason.
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Mandryka

Has anyone heard any of the Samuel Scheidt survey on Fagott? Any opinions? Which would be the best one to start with?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on February 13, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
Has anyone heard any of the Samuel Scheidt survey on Fagott? Any opinions? Which would be the best one to start with?

I own the first 8 volumes, and I have listened to about half of them. The recordings are very interesting from an organological point of view, and as far as I can judge (competition isn´t strong) the playing from a number of different - and to me largely unknown -  organists, is highly informed and also generally inspired.
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Mandryka

#324
Warning. Prepare yourself for a rave.

This is what Skip Sempé says about Louis Couperin's organ works from the Oldham manuscript

QuoteBelieve it or not, we do not really know for sure whether this Couperin is Louis or another member of the Couperin family. Louis Couperin was a known viol player and organist: it was his brother Charles who had an outstanding reputation as a harpsichordist. Charles Couperin was the father of François Couperin 'Le Grand', which may lead us to wonder if the finest eighteenth century French harpsichordist was actually trained by his father, rather than his uncle? As a further complication of the issue, the organ pieces of 'Louis Couperin' have recently been published, and it has been suggested that the manuscript source of these organ works represents an autograph of Louis Couperin. There is some disagreement on this matter. However, the harpsichord works are so much more interesting on grounds of musical content and finesse of style that I find it hard to imagine that these organ pieces are the work of the same composer. I have suggested that even if Louis Couperin was the scribe, does this lend real certainty as the composer of the music he was transmitting in his own hand? Perhaps we will never know.

And Glen Wilson, in a more scholarly manner, has tried to support his view that the Fantasias and Fugues aren't good enough to be by a master like LC, the paper's on the Glen Wilson website. Moroney was a  defender in performance I suppose, though I've never seen anything on it published by him, he seems to have remained quiet. I have a friend who went to hear Moroney play the music at St Gervais in Paris who says he was so bored he nearly fell asleep.

Up to now, I've known the pieces from Moroney's recording and from Jan Wilem Jansen's. Neither had convinced me that this was interesting music and quietly I sympahised with Skip Sempé and Glen Wilson. I haven't heard Peter Dirkson's recording.

Then I bought this, I took a punt. Result: I've started to change my mind:



What's so special about Beyhurst's take on the music is this: it reminds me of Titelouze. Contrapuntal, yes. But not academic. The function of the music is to effect your soul. And above all, it's an orgy of colour.

And Beyhurst seems to give the works something which seems right at the essence of French early music - the paradoxical combination of raucous vulgarity and refined elegance.

Why should the influences of LC's harpsichord music be the same as his organ music? There's no reason to expect similarities. I'm not sure if LC could have been aware of Titelouze's music or the Titelouze style - but listening to this recording, I'd bet he was.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on February 15, 2015, 05:28:05 AM
Warning. Prepare yourself for a rave.



Then I bought this, I took a punt. Result: I've started to change my mind:



What's so special about Beyhurst's take on the music is this: it reminds me of Titelouze. Contrapuntal, yes. But not academic. The function of the music is to effect your soul. And above all, it's an orgy of colour.

And Beyhurst seems to give the works something which seems right at the essence of French early music - the paradoxical combination of raucous vulgarity and refined elegance.


Too interesting to pass by, so I ordered the CD at once (from Fnac).  :)
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Moonfish

#326
I came across this film showing Michel Chapuis performing at Saint Pons (recorded back in 2006). It is interesting to watch him play.

https://www.youtube.com/v/St6uZxVawcY
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mandryka

#327
I heard Serge Schoonbroot play at Ste Croix in Bordeaux last night, he did some Sweelinck and Chaumont and Grigny and Marchand. The Marchand was particularly impressive. During the concert I kept thinking that I've never heard a musician so talented at making the music sound so fresh, as though it's an improvisation. Other organists may be great at other things, but for using techniques to make the music sound like spontaneous expression, Schoonderbroot is exceptional.

One aspect of this is about transitions. When a registration changes, even when it changes dramatically, Schoonbroot makes it sound really natural.

It also made me think that I'd better do something with my hi fi to get closer to the real Dom Bedos sound at home. Suggestions for amps, speakers, sub woofers etc appreciated.

How strange music is. There we all were listening to this big rich colourful sound in this enormous stone space. Yet somehow, staring at the green and gold pipes like you might watch a log fire or the surface of a lake, it all felt extremely intimate.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#328


What do you really get from meantone?

The disc above has some c17 Dutch style music played on a neo baroque organ (new pipes, old case.) Leonhardt plays it with equal tuning, and Matteo Imbruno plays it with meantone tuning.

Maybe, just maybe, I can hear the difference caused by the tuning. I can certainly hear a difference but  you have to bear in mind that the recording quality is different, and the organists may be using different magic powers in their touch to affect the sound (that's possible, right?) Is Leonhardt's recital "whiter" than Imbruno's? It doesn't sound like that to me in the van Noordt hymn or the Scheidemann Toccata.

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premont

Quote from: Mandryka on November 16, 2015, 03:21:32 AM
What do you really get from meantone?

You know the answer.

One gets almost pure tuning, in contrast to the universally out of tune equal tuning.



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premont

Quote from: (: premont :) on November 17, 2015, 04:13:27 AM

One gets almost pure tuning, in contrast to the universally out of tune equal tuning.

I think I once more shall recommend this book:

Ross W. Duffin:
How equal temperament ruined harmony
W. W. Norton & Company, New York/London
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premont

Quote from: Mandryka on July 09, 2015, 09:12:58 AM
I heard Serge Schoonbroot play at Ste Croix in Bordeaux last night, he did some Sweelinck and Chaumont and Grigny and Marchand. The Marchand was particularly impressive. During the concert I kept thinking that I've never heard a musician so talented at making the music sound so fresh, as though it's an improvisation. Other organists may be great at other things, but for using techniques to make the music sound like spontaneous expression, Schoonderbroot is exceptional.

One aspect of this is about transitions. When a registration changes, even when it changes dramatically, Schoonbroot makes it sound really natural.

It also made me think that I'd better do something with my hi fi to get closer to the real Dom Bedos sound at home. Suggestions for amps, speakers, sub woofers etc appreciated.

How strange music is. There we all were listening to this big rich colourful sound in this enormous stone space. Yet somehow, staring at the green and gold pipes like you might watch a log fire or the surface of a lake, it all felt extremely intimate.

Thanks for these inspiring thoughts. Schoonbroodt´s recordings very much confirm your impressions.

I recall, that you intended a few months ago to attend a recital with Robert Bates (Titelouze/Grigny) in St. Croix. What did you make of this?
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XB-70 Valkyrie

That Marie-Claire Alain set posted above looks great. I have her Erato set of the complete Bach and now I want this. Has anyone heard it?
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Mandryka

Quote from: (: premont :) on November 17, 2015, 01:02:12 PM
Thanks for these inspiring thoughts. Schoonbroodt´s recordings very much confirm your impressions.

I recall, that you intended a few months ago to attend a recital with Robert Bates (Titelouze/Grigny) in St. Croix. What did you make of this?

Don't ask. It was a disaster for me. I didn't make it to the church in time >:(
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 17, 2015, 06:36:38 PM
That Marie-Claire Alain set posted above looks great. I have her Erato set of the complete Bach and now I want this. Has anyone heard it?

I have it. The transfers are good. Unfortunately most of the music in the set doesn't interest me much.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen


jochanaan

Quote from: Mandryka on July 09, 2015, 09:12:58 AM
...How strange music is. There we all were listening to this big rich colourful sound in this enormous stone space. Yet somehow, staring at the green and gold pipes like you might watch a log fire or the surface of a lake, it all felt extremely intimate.
Yes, the sounds draw us all in. 8)
Imagination + discipline = creativity

XB-70 Valkyrie

Quote from: (: premont :) on November 17, 2015, 12:53:04 PM
I think I once more shall recommend this book:

Ross W. Duffin:
How equal temperament ruined harmony
W. W. Norton & Company, New York/London

Can you recommend something shorter as an introduction?

Lately I am becoming even more enchanted with de Grigny's work, and am seeking additional recordings.
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Mandryka

Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on November 18, 2015, 10:54:02 PM


Lately I am becoming even more enchanted with de Grigny's work, and am seeking additional recordings.

What have you been listening to?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

XB-70 Valkyrie

I have an LP on the Telefunken label (probably mid-60s) with  Premier Livre d'Orgue, 1699, La Messe. I am not sure who the artist is--I made a CD of that LP, but now I can't find the LP itself.

I also have a CD by Gerre Hancock, former organist at St. Thomas Church in NYC. This is outstanding BTW:

If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff