Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[calyptorhynchus]

I prefer to be taken to the abyss on Sunday evenings, set myself up for a cheery work week 

Where I used to work was the Abyss, Mahler 9 was a school outing by comparison.

[LKB]

The Ninth is neither abyssal nor a school outing ( though Putzi is certainly referenced ).

As to what the Ninth actually  is, though, final definitions still elude me despite my deliberating over the course of some forty years.

Perhaps that's merely a hallmark of all great works of art: Transcending the perceptual limits of any one individual. Otoh, it may be that I'm simply incapable of getting my head all the way around the Symphony. I certainly won't discount that possibility, since I'm smart enough to know how dumb l can be. 

[Atriod]

The Ninth is neither abyssal nor a school outing ( though Putzi is certainly referenced ).

As to what the Ninth actually  is, though, final definitions still elude me despite my deliberating over the course of some forty years.

Perhaps that's merely a hallmark of all great works of art: Transcending the perceptual limits of any one individual. Otoh, it may be that I'm simply incapable of getting my head all the way around the Symphony. I certainly won't discount that possibility, since I'm smart enough to know how dumb l can be. 

As you say what we take away is subjective, but I have a hard time hearing it as anything but what I wrote. Mahler writing about his failing heart in the first movement (both literally and figuratively). How sad the final movement is, not just being adagissimo but then changing the tempo to "extremely slowly." I can't remember who said this (Bernstein?) calling the music being suspended, going beyond time/infinity which is not too dissimilar to what I called it, being taken to the abyss.

I easily hear this in performances like Chailly, Kobayashi/Japan Philharmonic (what I posted on another board is like being taken to the event horizon in that last movement in this performance) or Inbal/Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra. I have heard some easy, breezy performances that don't seem to get what it's about.

[Herman]

I can't remember who said this (Bernstein?) calling the music being suspended, going beyond time/infinity which is not too dissimilar to what I called it, being taken to the abyss.

I would caution against taking Bernstein's characterisations of Mahler's music too seriously. They're often deeply reductive and yet hard to shake. In one of those 'Bernstein sits down at the piano to explain music' video's he boiled down Tchaikovsky's 4th to "I want it, I want it" as if it were a rock song.

[Atriod]

I would caution against taking Bernstein's characterisations of Mahler's music too seriously. They're often deeply reductive and yet hard to shake. In one of those 'Bernstein sits down at the piano to explain music' video's he boiled down Tchaikovsky's 4th to "I want it, I want it" as if it were a rock song.

Completely ignore what Bernstein said if you have some bone to pick with him and just listen to the music attentively/uninterrupted/not doing anything else, like all great art demands. It's pretty obvious what the general feel of the piece is, the fourth movement is about as literal as Mahler gets. The only real ambiguity I hear is whether he has come to peace with things with the quiet ending or if nothing has been resolved (even the harrowing sixth symphony has a concrete resolution). Either interpretation doesn't detract from my interpretation of the symphony as a whole as taking us to the abyss.

[LKB]

Completely ignore what Bernstein said if you have some bone to pick with him and just listen to the music attentively/uninterrupted/not doing anything else, like all great art demands. It's pretty obvious what the general feel of the piece is, the fourth movement is about as literal as Mahler gets. The only real ambiguity I hear is whether he has come to peace with things with the quiet ending or if nothing has been resolved (even the harrowing sixth symphony has a concrete resolution). Either interpretation doesn't detract from my interpretation of the symphony as a whole as taking us to the abyss.

After a little thought, I'd opine that quoting the phrase from Kindertotenlieder was his way of evoking Maria, and telling her that he'll be with her soon.

From that perspective there is no abyss, only peaceful reunification.

[relm1]

I would caution against taking Bernstein's characterisations of Mahler's music too seriously. They're often deeply reductive and yet hard to shake. In one of those 'Bernstein sits down at the piano to explain music' video's he boiled down Tchaikovsky's 4th to "I want it, I want it" as if it were a rock song.

Oh come on.  That was to an audience of kids where he introduced them to emotions in music as if the music had a yearning quality to it using language they could understand.  He was brilliant at explaining music to kids and you can tell they were fully engaged.  He was so good at this, he later did a reverse version where he introduced the then new phenomenon of The Beatles to classically oriented audiences. 

[Brian]

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

[Atriod]

Found the source of where I thought I was pulling that description from Bernstein. I am in complete agreement with him. I'd consider most conductors necessary for the music but an opinion not much higher than that. The rare exceptions like Bernstein for his exceptional knowledge of music/music theory or Boulez because of his compositions.

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

From the parts that I have heard a consistently very good cycle. My main issue with Mahler is the sheer amount of time you have to dedicate to even just a single symphony. Having to dedicate an hour or more of uninterrupted/eyes closed listening to anything less than the very best performances is burning hours off my life in my finite time.

[DavidW]

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

I have the ninth as a download, but I have been waiting for that box set.  I will probably pick it up.  Highlights for me are 6, 8, 9 and 10 with the 10th being absolutely thrilling.

[Leo K.]

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

This is great news, thanks!