Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 1019872 times)

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Offline ritter

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12080 on: October 25, 2019, 12:26:46 PM »
The original image might actually have been reversed, which would explain Haydn's leading: he was originall at the right.
But wouldn’t that make all players left-handed in the original?
ritter
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« Et tandis que nous roulerons, à pleins poumons nous chanterons: 'Muguet! Muguet! Joli muguet, par toi l'on reprend confiance' »

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12081 on: October 25, 2019, 03:38:28 PM »
But wouldn’t that make all players left-handed in the original?

Yes it would. I don't buy into the reversed image theory. But I don't bat an eye at Haydn playing a viola, as long as Mozart wasn't there. :)

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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12082 on: October 26, 2019, 12:20:00 AM »
But wouldn’t that make all players left-handed in the original?

Yes, I realized that later.  :)
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12083 on: October 26, 2019, 12:33:29 AM »
Oddly enough, Haydn played the viola whenever he got the opportunity. If you listen to the Baryton Trios (Baryton, Viola & Cello), oftentimes the viola part is nicer than the others (in my ears anyway). Haydn always played it, with the Prince on Baryton and various cellists from the band. He did the same thing Mozart did, made the viola part better than it might have otherwise been and played it himself.
As the baryton trios have no violin part this seems a moot point (and Haydn probably didn't score them with violin because the baryton was supposed to have center stage). But you are right that some composers seem to have loved to play the viola in ensemble (supposedly Bach as well but maybe I read this only wrt to Brandenburg 6). One reason for it seems to be that one is more "inside the works". Another, although this certainly did not apply to Bach, Mozart and Haydn is that viola parts are usually easier and those who never got far on the violin might still do acceptably on viola (like the young Beethoven).
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12084 on: October 26, 2019, 09:13:43 AM »
As the baryton trios have no violin part this seems a moot point (and Haydn probably didn't score them with violin because the baryton was supposed to have center stage). But you are right that some composers seem to have loved to play the viola in ensemble (supposedly Bach as well but maybe I read this only wrt to Brandenburg 6). One reason for it seems to be that one is more "inside the works". Another, although this certainly did not apply to Bach, Mozart and Haydn is that viola parts are usually easier and those who never got far on the violin might still do acceptably on viola (like the young Beethoven).

True. The viola part in the 6 duos (Hob 6:1-6) is equally challenging though. I don't think I have documentation, but I believe they were written for Haydn and Luigi Tomasini to play together.

I actually just read about Bach and the viola rather recently and thought "well, there's yet another". I agree with your 'inside the work' idea, in fact I may have read that somewhere, particularly about string quartets. It is an instrument that doesn't get noticed until it isn't there anymore. :)

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Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12085 on: November 02, 2019, 09:09:49 PM »
I'm getting a bit puzzled by Symphony 97. In the slow movement, in the third variation, Haydn asks the violinists to play sul ponticello, which should produce a 'nasty rasping' (Steinberg).

I can't hear this on any recording I have, including the Bruggen. Is it in fact quite subtle, or is there a recording with audible nasty rasping?

Offline Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12086 on: November 03, 2019, 03:10:06 AM »
The effect *is* quite subtle in most recordings. And nasty rasping is clearly exaggerated, it's more like a "glassy" effect between spooky and ethereal. I have not checked again but in earlier notes I was also surprised that it is hardly audible in Brüggen's recording. According to said notes I found it more obvious in Szell's and Harnoncourt's recordings.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12087 on: November 03, 2019, 12:16:12 PM »
The effect *is* quite subtle in most recordings. And nasty rasping is clearly exaggerated, it's more like a "glassy" effect between spooky and ethereal. I have not checked again but in earlier notes I was also surprised that it is hardly audible in Brüggen's recording. According to said notes I found it more obvious in Szell's and Harnoncourt's recordings.

Thanks, I'll have a listen to those. I did find the Dorati recording on Youtube and could hear a sort of wiry timbre in that variation. I'll look forward to hearing a better quality recording in that passage.

Offline San Antone

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12088 on: November 15, 2019, 01:40:54 PM »
I am sure this set in well known in these parts, but I just discovered it today and have been enjoying it.  I thought I'd mention it.



Haydn - Complete Keyboard Works
Bart Van Oort


Quote
This useful set gathers up the many shorter works that Haydn wrote for the keyboard: many minuets of light character and charming temperament and variation sets of great melodic invention. He arranged many movements from his chamber and orchestral works, doubtless encouraged by his fame and his publisher to bring his music to even greater domestic popularity in a world where live music was far more often heard on the piano at home than in great concert halls. Finally, there is his great cycle of Seven Last Words: seven poignant slow movements with an introduction and final ‘Earthquake' originally commissioned for choir and orchestra for Lisbon Cathedral, but which quickly achieved a reputation for their sober beauty out of
proportion to the specific conditions of their context: hence this arrangement made by another party.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 01:43:09 PM by San Antone »

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12089 on: November 15, 2019, 04:59:49 PM »
I am sure this set in well known in these parts, but I just discovered it today and have been enjoying it.  I thought I'd mention it.



Haydn - Complete Keyboard Works
Bart Van Oort



Nice!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
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nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12090 on: November 15, 2019, 07:35:31 PM »
I am sure this set in well known in these parts, but I just discovered it today and have been enjoying it.  I thought I'd mention it.



Haydn - Complete Keyboard Works
Bart Van Oort


Nice!

Nice indeed. There are some pieces in there which don't crop up elsewhere, although it does make me feel worse that so many of the dances haven't been recorded by small orchestras, since you can see how nice they are. Oort is consistently good, which is why I'm pleased to have both his Haydn & Mozart sets. :)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12091 on: December 02, 2019, 04:47:23 PM »
I've been a short hiatus, reaching the end of 1799 was a landmark thing for me, and starting 1800 was a good place to take a break. But in the interim, I thought the time was just right to finally finish up on Haydn's music of the 1790's.  It broke out well into two 5-year blocks, the first in England, the second in Vienna. So if you are a lover of lists, here is part 2 of the biggest music decade of Haydn's life!

The music from Vienna - 1796 - 1800

Thanks!
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Offline hvbias

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12092 on: December 08, 2019, 10:02:06 AM »
I've had Seven Last Words of Christ for string quartet in my heavy listening these last couple of months (Festetics and Mosaiques), what an incredibly beautiful piece. These were late discoveries for me until I found the rather hard to find Festetics CD on Harmonia Mundi... I think I ignored them for so long since it seemed like something transcribed just for the sake of a commission but I am glad to say I found it sooner rather than later.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12093 on: December 08, 2019, 11:21:27 AM »
I've had Seven Last Words of Christ for string quartet in my heavy listening these last couple of months (Festetics and Mosaiques), what an incredibly beautiful piece. These were late discoveries for me until I found the rather hard to find Festetics CD on Harmonia Mundi... I think I ignored them for so long since it seemed like something transcribed just for the sake of a commission but I am glad to say I found it sooner rather than later.

They are beautiful, without doubt. If you would like to read something of the background of them, here are a couple of essays.
The work itself (orchestral version)
The arrangements for quartet & keyboard

Curious where you found the Festetics disk! I have been looking for that (on HM/Quintana, I'd guess) for several years, without success! :'(

Cheers,
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Offline hvbias

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12094 on: December 08, 2019, 05:06:02 PM »
They are beautiful, without doubt. If you would like to read something of the background of them, here are a couple of essays.
The work itself (orchestral version)
The arrangements for quartet & keyboard

Curious where you found the Festetics disk! I have been looking for that (on HM/Quintana, I'd guess) for several years, without success! :'(

Cheers,
8)

Thank you very much, I look forward to delving more into your entries. I have not heard the one for keyboard, I'll see about hearing it. This is one that came into my local record store, they are cool dudes that text me when they get in classical collections; I've picked up some rare discs this way.

I sent you a PM.