Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 1085047 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12160 on: March 24, 2020, 01:27:46 AM »
According to Haydn Seek, Haydn wrote a keyboard trio in 1772, HobXV:02. Has anyone recorded it? I have the trio 1790 set but I just can’t find it, maybe I need glasses.

Gurn - I assume that it’s attributed to 1772 because of the way the earliest fair copy is dated, rather than anything more secure.  The reason I’m interested is that I’m exploring op 20.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12161 on: March 24, 2020, 01:41:37 AM »
According to Haydn Seek, Haydn wrote a keyboard trio in 1772, HobXV:02. Has anyone recorded it?

Hob XV:2 in F major is on the Beaux Arts Trio set disc 3.

Quote
I have the trio 1790 set but I just can’t find it, maybe I need glasses.

It's the very last trio on Volume 8 disc 2.

I'm sure it must also be somewhere in the Van Swieten Trio set.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:43:41 AM by Florestan »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12162 on: March 24, 2020, 01:47:52 AM »
Hob XV:2 in F major is on the Beaux Arts Trio set disc 3.

It's the very last trio on Volume 8 disc 2.

I'm sure it must also be somewhere in the Van Swieten Trio set.

Super thanks. Found it (badly tagged on my hard drive!)

Interestingly the final movement is a set of variations with the opening aria repeated at the end, like the Goldberg Variations. Was that a common trope in C18 music?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:49:46 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12163 on: March 24, 2020, 02:08:48 AM »
Hob XV:2  was published together with XV:9 and 10 in 1785. Supposedly it uses a lost divertimento (but I cannot find more information, maybe a Baryton piece?). Dating is very uncertain around/before 1770, probably somewhat earlier than the bunch of quartets starting with op.9.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12164 on: March 24, 2020, 02:39:18 AM »
Hob XV:2  was published together with XV:9 and 10 in 1785. Supposedly it uses a lost divertimento (but I cannot find more information, maybe a Baryton piece?). Dating is very uncertain around/before 1770, probably somewhat earlier than the bunch of quartets starting with op.9.

It certainly sounds very different from op 20!

Anyway, in my little exploration around 1772 I was pleased to discover op 17/5 adagio
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12165 on: March 24, 2020, 08:21:14 AM »
Specifics about the origin of Hob 15:2
What's known about the publication in 1785

The short take on it is that the scholars are nearly positive that 15:2 began life as one of those little concertinos which now reside in Hob 14, but the second violin part was either lost or removed as a modernization effort. The concertinos mostly date from the late 1750's and '60's, so if that's what this is, then 1772 is probably not when it was composed. FWIW, I think the inner movement is splendid, as are so many of Haydn's inner movements.

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12166 on: March 24, 2020, 08:27:05 AM »
The McCreesh and Spering versions of Creation - or Die Schöpfung, since I prefer it in German - are excellent. So are those by Christie and Griffiths, all with PI or in period style. I don’t know the Gardiner. I generally dislike his work, so I leave its appreciation to others.:D

Thanks All on the previous page who left comments and recommendations on the Haydn Oratorios - for The Creation, believe that the McCreesh and Spering versions will do me fine - Gardiner did not get too many comments?  For The Seasons, will definitely keep the Jacobs recording and add an English version w/ McCreesh - excellent reviews on Amazon, plus great comments from MusicWeb (review attached for those in the market?).  Thanks again.  Dave :)
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12167 on: March 24, 2020, 08:50:24 AM »
Early Divertimenti w/ the Haydn Ensemble Berlin on 'modern instruments', recorded in 1999 - early last week, I was looking on BRO for some Hoffmeister CDs (and found three recordings, 2 solo piano & a 2-disc set of clarinet/piano sonatas) - added this Haydn CD to pad the shipping a little.

In 1759, Haydn (then 27 y/o) was hired by Count Morzin to work w/ his orchestra at Lukavice Castle (pic below) for two years before his new job with the Esterhazy family in 1761; most of these Hob II: works are listed/discussed by Gurn in his Haydn Seek Blog under 'Haydn's Music by Decades, 1750s & 1760s.  In an excellent MusicWeb review (attached), the publication dates for these works are 1760-66, so most after Haydn left Morzin; of course, these works were likely written earlier.  I have Papa's earliest Symphonies & String Quartets and now some of the Divertimenti.  Dave :)

 

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12168 on: March 24, 2020, 11:02:39 AM »
Thanks All on the previous page who left comments and recommendations on the Haydn Oratorios - for The Creation, believe that the McCreesh and Spering versions will do me fine - Gardiner did not get too many comments?  For The Seasons, will definitely keep the Jacobs recording and add an English version w/ McCreesh - excellent reviews on Amazon, plus great comments from MusicWeb (review attached for those in the market?).  Thanks again.  Dave :)
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Yup, in re The Seasons: Jacobs & McCreesh are all you should need. The only other one I could even think to recommend, which is pretty darn good, is Harnoncourt:



But with what you have already, you can live without. McCreesh really loads up the musicians here too, double orchestras and choruses, can't beat that for that Phil Spektor Wall of Sound! :D

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12169 on: March 24, 2020, 11:28:21 AM »
Yup, in re The Seasons: Jacobs & McCreesh are all you should need. The only other one I could even think to recommend, which is pretty darn good, is Harnoncourt:

 

But with what you have already, you can live without. McCreesh really loads up the musicians here too, double orchestras and choruses, can't beat that for that Phil Spektor Wall of Sound! :D

8)

Tempting!  Could make a purchase just for that cover - love the artist Giuseppe Arcimboldo - short quote from link - but for me, 2 versions of each Oratorio in English & German seems fine - thanks!  Dave :)

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Giuseppe Arcimboldo (1526 or 1527 – 1593) was an Italian painter best known for creating imaginative portrait heads made entirely of objects such as fruits, vegetables, flowers, fish and books.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12170 on: March 24, 2020, 12:14:41 PM »
But with what you have already, you can live without. McCreesh really loads up the musicians here too, double orchestras and choruses, can't beat that for that Phil Spektor Wall of Sound! :D

8)

Perhaps you're being facetious, but I thought McCreesh was an OVPP guy. I would think doubling parts and choruses would not be his style...?

Offline JBS

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12171 on: March 24, 2020, 12:19:27 PM »
Perhaps you're being facetious, but I thought McCreesh was an OVPP guy. I would think doubling parts and choruses would not be his style...?

Haydn's forces in the premiere of The Creation were very large compared to most concerts of that time, and the British already had a habit of using big orchestras and choruses for the Handel oratorios that were Haydn's model. So McCreesh feels going big here is the correct HIP approach.

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12172 on: March 24, 2020, 12:36:48 PM »
Perhaps you're being facetious, but I thought McCreesh was an OVPP guy. I would think doubling parts and choruses would not be his style...?
Haydn's forces in the premiere of The Creation were very large compared to most concerts of that time, and the British already had a habit of using big orchestras and choruses for the Handel oratorios that were Haydn's model. So McCreesh feels going big here is the correct HIP approach.

What Jeffrey said. I talked to McCreesh about it (over on Twitter) while they were still working on it, and he said they were generally recreating one of the first performances. I won't be writing the essay on 'The Seasons' until later this year, but I have the research  materials gathered up, and indeed, there are performances on file which are easily that big. The Viennese "Company of Friends of Music" simply called on every musician in Vienna and said 'let's do this'. And they did... :)

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Online Madiel

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12173 on: March 25, 2020, 05:11:18 AM »
I only have Gardiner and I'm perfectly happy with it. I suspect I got it because there were plenty of positive reviews.
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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12174 on: March 26, 2020, 12:06:40 PM »
Favorite HIP London symphonies? I have Szell/Cleveland and Davis/RCO but would like to hear them on the old instruments.

PS. I'm listening to the Missa in tempore belli right now, w/ Harnoncourt and the Concentus Musicus Wien & the Arnold Schoenberg Chor. Very good stuff! I need to explore Haydn's other masses and choral works...

Offline Daverz

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12175 on: March 26, 2020, 01:27:57 PM »
Favorite HIP London symphonies? I have Szell/Cleveland and Davis/RCO but would like to hear them on the old instruments.

PS. I'm listening to the Missa in tempore belli right now, w/ Harnoncourt and the Concentus Musicus Wien & the Arnold Schoenberg Chor. Very good stuff! I need to explore Haydn's other masses and choral works...

I'd recommend the Brüggen set.  Though I wouldn't want to do without Bernstein/Sony, Klemperer, Jochum, or Dennis Russell Davies.

Offline George

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12176 on: March 26, 2020, 01:30:48 PM »
I'd recommend the Brüggen set.

Me too!
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Offline Daverz

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12177 on: March 26, 2020, 01:33:04 PM »
I only have Gardiner and I'm perfectly happy with it. I suspect I got it because there were plenty of positive reviews.

For Die Schöpfung, I really enjoy the Marriner on EMI with an excellent cast of singers (sung in German).

 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 01:35:59 PM by Daverz »

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12178 on: March 26, 2020, 02:55:59 PM »
I'd recommend the Brüggen set.  Though I wouldn't want to do without Bernstein/Sony, Klemperer, Jochum, or Dennis Russell Davies.

Brüggen is not easy to find, unfortunately. I have his Paris symphonies (which is also out of print, but still fairly cheap, unlike the Londons, and love it.

Offline Daverz

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #12179 on: March 26, 2020, 02:56:25 PM »
Me too!

It may be hard to source.  There was a box set of all Brüggen's Haydn Symphony recordings (Sturm & Drang, Paris, London) which must have had a very limited release.   Otherwise the Londons were available on 2 Philips Duos.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-8734/

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=haydn+london+bruggen (Presto CDs are CDRs, I assume)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haydn-Orchestra-Century-Frans-Br%C3%BCggen/dp/B001N083PU
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haydn-London-Symphonies-Composer-1994-11-15/dp/B014I5TOQ