Haydn's Haus

[Jo498]

But what about Harnoncourt?

Very little overlap with Solomons, only 45, 59, 60 and 69. Harnoncourt is quite different; probably one of the largest ensembles, some comparably slowish tempi, so certainly worth trying (although I wonder how he got to the selection of the few "middle" symphonies he recorded) but covering so few of the pieces that he's not really an option for getting anywhere close to complete.

For complete sets I don't think even Dorati is consistent over the whole thing let alone Fischer (but IMO I think both are good enough), the closest I've seen is Project 2032 so far (Antonini).

I didn't know that they had packed up a bunch of them at budget price. When the first volumes came out I tried some tracks and found them hyperactive, also didn't like the haphazard "concept album" and of course they were expensive.

[Florestan]

As I wrote elsewhere I gave in and got the Solomons box for 60 EUR. Curiosity and the fear to miss out (because nowadays box vanish quickly so it's a gamble to hope for a lower price) won out in the end.

The obvious problem is that the gaps here make it difficult for those wanting to minimize duplication. I only dipped into the box (it only arrived saturday evening). It confirms what I knew from the 11 symphonies (of 49) I had had before that it is very good and a brief characterization for me is "similar to Hogwood but better". It's a pity that this truly pioneering HIP set (began in 1980) was abolished after only about 6 years. Similar to Hogwood because it uses small forces and (rather discrete) harpsichord only in the earlier pieces. There is even some overlap in the players but without having done A-B I found Solomons usually more spirited and intense.

It must also be admitted that the core of the Solomons is the ca. 20 symphonies ca. 1767-72 usually called "Sturm and Drang" and there are some very good recordings of them, e.g. Pinnock/Archiv. I have not heard them yet but Solomons might be further ahead of the competition in the 19 very early symphonies and/or in the 50s/60s pieces that are usually not included in Sturm&Drang (but are here).

Thanks for the details. I'll get it.

[Jo498]

FWIW, the Solomons box covers the content of Hogwoods Vol. 1+2 (+16 but no 25 and 36) and Vol. 5,6,7,8,9 (but 63 instead of 53 and no alternative version/movements of e.g. 54).
So whoever thought of filling gaps by getting Hogwood's old 3-disc-boxes separately might have a better deal with Solomons. Admittedly, the extensive notes are missing from the latter.
 
It also shows how Hogwoods series almost 10 years later was set up in a very similar fashion to the older project, despite the new CD format and some minor re-shuffling in the tentative chronological order (or this might have been for the more restrictive playing times of LPs).

[Florestan]

But what about Harnoncourt?

Besides that, there is also this:

[SonicMan46]

Besides that, there is also this:

 

Assume the same as the box (inserted above) that I showed on the previous page?  Dave

[Florestan]

Assume the same as the box (inserted above) that I showed on the previous page?  Dave

Most probably.

[Brian]

I have to admit I just don't like that Harnoncourt/RCO Londons.  They just sound too big and boring.

*grabs bazooka*

I'll probably stream some of Solomons this afternoon. I like a fairly wide range of Haydn symphony interpretations, as long as the minuets aren't ploddingly slow and the harpsichord is absent or barely noticeable. Having the Decca HIP box (where Solomons mainly competes with Bruggen) and Bruno Weil box, I probably don't need the Solomons...but it can't hurt to try, right? 

[Florestan]

*grabs bazooka*

I'll probably stream some of Solomons this afternoon. I like a fairly wide range of Haydn symphony interpretations, as long as the minuets aren't ploddingly slow and the harpsichord is absent or barely noticeable. Having the Decca HIP box (where Solomons mainly competes with Bruggen) and Bruno Weil box, I probably don't need the Solomons...but it can't hurt to try, right? 

Can one have too much Haydn?

[DavidW]

Very little overlap with Solomons, only 45, 59, 60 and 69.

Oh I didn't realize that the Solomons were incomplete.  I need to pay more attention!

[DavidW]

I know that Sarge always used to rave about Fey's set, and I know that someone had to take over for him... but someone did... was the cycle ever finished?

[Brian]

I know that Sarge always used to rave about Fey's set, and I know that someone had to take over for him... but someone did... was the cycle ever finished?

I think they just very recently did. The unfortunately named Johannes Klumpp.

(takes short break before hitting "Post")

Yes, the final volume was released in February, and that listing says there will be a big box sometime later in the year.

[DavidW]

I think they just very recently did. The unfortunately named Johannes Klumpp.

(takes short break before hitting "Post")

Yes, the final volume was released in February, and that listing says there will be a big box sometime later in the year.

Did Klumpp stick to the landing?  Was he a worthy successor?

[SonicMan46]

Oh I didn't realize that the Solomons were incomplete.  I need to pay more attention!

Dave - back on the previous page I posted the number contents of the Antonini and Solomons boxes, along w/ what's missing with both combined - below.  Dave

Antonini - Il Giardino/Basel (box of first 10 volumes)
 01, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 15, 19, 22, 26, 28, 35, 39, 42, 43, 45, 46, 47, 49, 60, 63, 64, 65, 67, 70, 79, 80, 81

V.11 - 2, 24, 82, 87; V.12 - 61, 66, 69; V.13 - 31, 48, 59; V.14 - 33, 53, 54 - Newest releases!

Solomon's - L'Estro Armonico
1$, 2, 3$, 4$, 5, 6$, 10, 11, 15, 17, 18, 19$, 20, 26$, 27, 32, 33, 35$, 37, 38, 39$, 41, 42$, 43$, 44, 45$, 46$, 47$, 48, 49$, 50, 51, 52, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60$, 63$, 64$, 65$, 66, 67$, 68, 69, 107, 108 - $ Solomon repeated by Antonini

Missing from Antonini (10 Box Set) & Solomons: 13, 14, 16, 21, 23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 31, 34, 36, 40, 53, 61, 62, 71-78, 82-90, 91-106 - own Nos. 82-104 (Kuijken/Harnoncourt)

[SonicMan46]

Trumpet Concerto - a plethora in my collection - cull, add, or both?   

Mark Bennett & Reinhold Friedrich perform on reproduction keyed trumpets (the instrument Haydn and Hummel knew); Marsalis was an early purchase on release - the lower three all on modern valved trumpets - now I've listen to Alison Balsom on Spotify and could be a replacement, BUT so many other options on perusing Amazon today.  Dave

   

   

[Jo498]

*grabs bazooka*

I don't think that Harnoncourt's London set with the Concertgebouw is boring, it's quite interesting. But it obviously has far more competition than e.g. #30 or 69 and the mix of Harnoncourt's mannerisms with the standard symphonic sound of the Concertgebouw can be a bit strange.
FWIW, I think the most remarkable is the Paris set with the Concentus but this also rather mannered, thus paradoxically I find the most easy to recommmend the bunch of earlier Teldec discs with the Concentus (6-8, 30, 31, 45....)

I'll probably stream some of Solomons this afternoon. I like a fairly wide range of Haydn symphony interpretations, as long as the minuets aren't ploddingly slow and the harpsichord is absent or barely noticeable. Having the Decca HIP box (where Solomons mainly competes with Bruggen) and Bruno Weil box, I probably don't need the Solomons...but it can't hurt to try, right? 

Solomons is probably faster than Brüggen, because he's usually on the fast side, except in the odd minuet, whereas Brüggen is all over the place. Some movements still get a bit long because of all repeats played (a feature shared with Hogwood).
Pinnock has the adavantage of slightly better sound, I think, and with his larger ensemble he sounds more "symphonic". Solomons is more "edgy" and has of course more than twice as many symphonies included as the "Sturm & Drang" sets.

[Madiel]

Can one have too much Haydn?

There is the amount of Haydn, and then there's the number of recordings of the same Haydn...

[Florestan]

There is the amount of Haydn, and then there's the number of recordings of the same Haydn...

Exactly. When one has finished listening to, say, the complete Fischer cycle, if one wants to listen to a symphony again, and one would surely want that sooner or later, it's so nice to have Hogwood, Bruggen, Solomons, Dorati, Fey, Kuijken etc as well and listen to that symphony in a different version. Especially when one doesn't do any A/B but simply enjoys the music and one's favorite performance is always the one they are currently listening to.  (Valid also for SQs, piano trios, piano sonatas, the concertos etc.)

Listened to Symphony No. 1 from the Solomons set and I was delighted by what I heard. Looks like I will greatly enjoy the whole thing.

[Jo498]

I thought there were "only" 5 complete Bach cantata sets, are there even more now?

Anyway, I am not lightly buying more recordings of everything nowadays; I had almost decided against the Solomons, see above.
But with a few exceptions (Paris, where I got rid of 3 decent sets and still have around 7) I don't have an absurd number of Haydn symphonies, especially not in the very early (admittedly I don't care so much about them) and the 60s numbers covered by Solomons. I'll probably also get rid of one or two of the bulky Hogwood boxes overlapping so might even save some space in the end.

[Madiel]

if one wants to listen to a symphony again, and one would surely want that sooner or later

Well yes. But then one might also want to listen to a string quartet, or a piano trio, or a mass, or a keyboard sonata, or a concerto, maybe even an opera.

I haven't yet finished getting all the Haydn compositions that I want in my collection (despite the spurt I did on quartets to have all of them except op.42, there are several other genres I'm lacking), and while that's the case I honestly don't have that much interest in finding additional recordings of pieces I already have. Unless and until I decide there's something genuinely deficient in the recordings I have.

By the time I get around to listening to a symphony again, it's frankly unlikely that I'll be bored with the recording that I chose with reasonable care the first time, because for me it'll probably be YEARS since I last heard it. But even if I just focused on symphonies (and it's one of my many to-do lists to do them again), it would not surprise me if it took me over a year to cycle through.

It's honestly slightly funny to me sometimes when GMG conversations get into how many sets of better-known works one should have, because then I ask about some other corner of the same composer's work and get... crickets chirping. I'm not talking about obscure composers here. It's possible to raise certain compositions by Beethoven or Brahms.

I've got nothing against having multiple sets of Haydn symphonies. The music is rich enough for it. But yeah, I'll pass on that until I've got the keyboard sonatas and at least tried some more concertos, some divertimenti, and a dash of opera.

Heck, I really should find out what a baryton sounds like.

[Madiel]

For the record, I found that Hogwood's set and Fischer's 70-81 volume (considered one of his best) did a nice job of covering the symphonies that aren't done over and over. And Kuijken covered the gap between 'Paris' and 'London' for me.

PS The 'London' symphonies really should be split in half, into London 1 and London 2. They're two distinct sets of six. That's always bugged me a little since I realised.