Haydn's Haus

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 06, 2007, 04:15:04 PM

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Madiel

For the record, I found that Hogwood's set and Fischer's 70-81 volume (considered one of his best) did a nice job of covering the symphonies that aren't done over and over. And Kuijken covered the gap between 'Paris' and 'London' for me.

PS The 'London' symphonies really should be split in half, into London 1 and London 2. They're two distinct sets of six. That's always bugged me a little since I realised.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

DavidW

Quote from: Jo498 on April 03, 2024, 04:45:55 AMI thought there were "only" 5 complete Bach cantata sets, are there even more now?

I didn't see they were complete!  I just said they were box sets.

DavidW

Quote from: Madiel on April 03, 2024, 05:41:25 AMPS The 'London' symphonies really should be split in half, into London 1 and London 2. They're two distinct sets of six. That's always bugged me a little since I realised.

Well the Philips twofers do that.  I think that was Davis or Bruggen or both.

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on April 03, 2024, 05:35:02 AMWell yes. But then one might also want to listen to a string quartet, or a piano trio, or a mass, or a keyboard sonata, or a concerto, maybe even an opera.

I said that myself.  ;)

Quote from: Florestan on April 03, 2024, 03:04:26 AM(Valid also for SQs, piano trios, piano sonatas, the concertos etc.)

There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

SonicMan46

Haydn - Violin Works in my collection for today's listening - Violin Concertos (see first quote) - initially 9 works contributed to him but only 4 proven genuine w/ one lost - so the two recordings I own have just 3 concertos (1,3,4) although Seiler ends with a work attributed to Solomon (same guy that brought Haydn to England x 2); both period instrument performances.

The Keyboard Duos on period instruments (sound is a little bright but acceptable to my ears) - the first 3 are listed as such in the Hoboken catalog (see second quote); the last two are from the 'Piano Trio' section (XV), but apparently the cello could be dropped leaving a keyboard duet w/ violin - how common was this done back then or now?

Finally, the String Duos for violin and viola (VI section) wonderfully done by Anton Steck and Christian Goosses - again see attachment if interested for reviews of all discs.  Dave

 

 

QuoteConcertos Violin (Source)
Violin Concerto No. 1 in C major, Hob. VIIa:1 (ca. 1765)
Violin Concerto No. 2 in D major, Hob. VIIa:2 (1765, lost)[1]
Violin Concerto No. 3 in A major, Hob. VIIa:3 "Melker Konzert" (ca. 1770)
Violin Concerto No. 4 in G major, Hob. VIIa:4 (1769)
Other Concertos (Hob. VIIa:D1/G1/A1/B1/B2) are not authentic, i.e. are not by Joseph Haydn.
- D1 - Concerto in D major for violin and orchestra (work by Carl Stamitz?)
- G1 - Concerto in G major for violin and strings (work by Michael Haydn?) (1762)
- A1 - Concerto in A major for violin and ... (work by Giovanni Mane Giornovichi?)
- B1 - Concerto in B flat major for violin and strings (by Michael Haydn) (1760)
- B2 - Concerto in B flat major for violin and strings (by Christian Cannabich) (1767)

QuoteKeyboard Duos (Source)
XVa:1    Sonata for keyboard and obbligato violin    B♭ major       
XVa:2    Sonata for keyboard and obbligato violin    D major           
XVa:3    Sonata for keyboard and obbligato violin    C major
XV:31    Piano Trio No. 41    E♭ minor              1795    violin, cello, keyboard   
XV:32    Piano Trio No. 31    G major            1793–94    violin, cello, keyboard       

QuoteVarious Duos (Source)
VI:1   String Duo   F major   c. 1777   violin, viola   
VI:2   String Duo   A major   c. 1777   violin, viola   
VI:3   String Duo   B♭ major   c. 1777   violin, viola   
VI:4   String Duo   D major   c. 1777   violin, viola   
VI:5   String Duo   E♭ major   c. 1777   violin, viola   
VI:6   String Duo   C major   c. 1777   violin, viola

Jo498

Quote from: Madiel on April 03, 2024, 05:41:25 AMPS The 'London' symphonies really should be split in half, into London 1 and London 2. They're two distinct sets of six. That's always bugged me a little since I realised.
To be even more pedantic, the Sinfonia concertante No. 105 could/should be grouped together with "London 1" but is frequently used as a filler for 89-92 or a some concerti.
I'd rather encourage coupling with one of the early symphonies with concertante elements such as 13 or 31 to make these earlier ones better known.

I think I have recordings of all Haydn pieces I am interested in; actually of quite a few I am not that much interested in ;) I have maybe 3 operas, I have even seen one on stage but am not sufficiently interested to get more. I don't much care for the concertos, not even the ones for cello or trumpet, but I nevertheless have about 3 recordings of the better known ones.

Although it has changed in the last decades, the Haydn discography is (with a few exceptions like the Paris/London symphonies, op.76+77 and a few more quartets, Creation and Seasons...) still not close in quality to e.g. Mozart's.
Sure, today one does not have to go out of one's way to find a recording of a symphony like #70 or 75 at all. But I have 3 of e.g. 75 and I don't think any of them is as good as an almost randomly picked 85 or 95 would be. Therefore it's justifiable for me to have several recordings. I usually try to have at least one on modern instruments and one HIP and I don't mind more for pieces I like a lot and it's unavoidable anyway because of couplings and boxes.



Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Jo498

So I looked a bit more closely how many Haydn symphonies I have and admittedly, it borders on the excessive...
But this is mostly due to boxes and couplings (that I obviously cannot break up) and affects almost only late symphonies some of which reach a dozen of recordings (95, 96, 104).
The symphonies in the Solomons box are typically the 4th or 5th (most of the so-called Sturm & Drang) but sometimes only the 2nd in addition to Fischer's complete box (many of the early "Morzin" symphonies).
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

JBS

Quote from: Jo498 on April 04, 2024, 09:47:58 AMSo I looked a bit more closely how many Haydn symphonies I have and admittedly, it borders on the excessive...
But this is mostly due to boxes and couplings (that I obviously cannot break up) and affects almost only late symphonies some of which reach a dozen of recordings (95, 96, 104).
The symphonies in the Solomons box are typically the 4th or 5th (most of the so-called Sturm & Drang) but sometimes only the 2nd in addition to Fischer's complete box (many of the early "Morzin" symphonies).

If it makes you feel better, I have at least 50 recordings of Mahler 2 and Mahler 9. And about 40 sets of Beethoven symphonies.
I stopped counting them years ago.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Brian

Quote from: JBS on April 04, 2024, 06:38:58 PMIf it makes you feel better, I have at least 50 recordings of Mahler 2 and Mahler 9. And about 40 sets of Beethoven symphonies.
I stopped counting them years ago.
Sounds like you owe us some Todd-style tiered rankings  ;)  ;D

JBS

Quote from: Brian on April 04, 2024, 06:54:42 PMSounds like you owe us some Todd-style tiered rankings  ;)  ;D

Oh, there's plenty of recordings I don't have.
And M2 has a special place for me, there's only a couple of recordings of it I don't like.
And both of them happen to be conducted by Abbado (the Vienna Phil. and Lucerne Festival recordings)--although his middle one, with the CSO, is very good.
I also wasn't keen on Norrington, although I like his other Mahler recordings.
Other than that they're all good.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Madiel

I believe the most recordings I have of any work is 4.

Well, unless you count all the recordings of Tori Amos concerts, both official and audience, where I have little idea how many times any given song might turn up (that's half the joy).

But classical, I believe it's 4.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Madiel on April 04, 2024, 10:47:03 PMI believe the most recordings I have of any work is 4.

Well, unless you count all the recordings of Tori Amos concerts, both official and audience, where I have little idea how many times any given song might turn up (that's half the joy).

But classical, I believe it's 4.
;D
Pohjolas Daughter

Jo498

Quote from: JBS on April 04, 2024, 06:38:58 PMIf it makes you feel better, I have at least 50 recordings of Mahler 2 and Mahler 9. And about 40 sets of Beethoven symphonies.
I stopped counting them years ago.
I have some/most Beethoven symphonies in the low double digits (~20).
But I was a bit surprised that there was so much Haydn. Technically, I only ever bought 3 sets of the "London" symphonies (Harnoncourt, Brüggen, Herbig), but then I have boxes containing all or several of them with Fischer, Dorati, Bernstein, Scherchen, Szell, Rosbaud, plus a bunch of single discs, some of which I also keep for sentimental value. E.g. 100+103 with Tate is not that good but it was my first CD with Haydn symphonies, a gift from my Dad when I was 17 or so.

But as said, for lesser known symphonies it's more like 2-4, which I don't find unreasonable. It would be almost unavoidable due to couplings anyway.

I remember that when I bought Mozart's concerto K 482 (Schiff/Vegh) in 1996 I was mildly annoyed that it was coupled with the A major K 488 of which I had already 2 recordings, I think. But it was a recommended disc and fairly cheap in a used store, so I bought it anyway.

Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

For Haydn symphonies sets I have the big ones with Fischer, Hogwood, Fey, Marriner, Antonini, Bruggen, Kuijken, Goodman, Pinnock, Harnoncourt and now Solomons. Also, small ones with Bernstein, Ansermet, Vegh, Scherchen.

There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

DavidW

Quote from: JBS on April 04, 2024, 06:38:58 PMIf it makes you feel better, I have at least 50 recordings of Mahler 2 and Mahler 9. And about 40 sets of Beethoven symphonies.
I stopped counting them years ago.

I've heard a lot of Mahler recordings but I don't think that much!  Mahler 9 is the one I obsess over the most.

DavidW

Quote from: JBS on April 04, 2024, 07:03:58 PMOh, there's plenty of recordings I don't have.
And M2 has a special place for me, there's only a couple of recordings of it I don't like.
And both of them happen to be conducted by Abbado (the Vienna Phil. and Lucerne Festival recordings)--although his middle one, with the CSO, is very good.
I also wasn't keen on Norrington, although I like his other Mahler recordings.
Other than that they're all good.

That also means you don't have an unbridled rage for Kaplan like some do, or Zander like Hurwitz does (just because he includes informative interviews... seriously some times DH is unhinged...)

Do you post on the Mahler board as well as here?

DavidW

Quote from: Florestan on April 05, 2024, 12:42:57 AMFor Haydn symphonies sets I have the big ones with Fischer, Hogwood, Fey, Marriner, Antonini, Bruggen, Kuijken, Goodman, Pinnock, Harnoncourt and now Solomons. Also, small ones with Bernstein, Ansermet, Vegh, Scherchen.



For me Fischer, Dorati, Hogwood, Russell-Davies, Antonini, Bruggen, Kuijken, Pinnock, Bernstein, Shelley, Harnoncourt, Davis, Muller-Bruhl, and Ward. 8)

Florestan

Quote from: DavidW on April 05, 2024, 08:55:29 AMFor me Fischer, Dorati, Hogwood, Russell-Davies, Antonini, Bruggen, Kuijken, Pinnock, Bernstein, Shelley, Harnoncourt, Davis, Muller-Bruhl, and Ward. 8)

Cool. The more, the merrier.  8)
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Pohjolas Daughter

Wow!  I don't have any complete Haydn symphony sets.

Pohjolas Daughter

DavidW

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 05, 2024, 09:00:09 AMWow!  I don't have any complete Haydn symphony sets.

Well I encourage you to dip your toes!  I think Haydn's symphonies are all great.  But if it is overwhelming (though I bet you have heard the big ones, but just in case) I suggest

Pinnock for the Storm and Stress
Bernstein for the Paris
Shelley for the Londons

But the Fischer set is pretty good and only costs like $80.  Of course with streaming you can just go whole hog without emptying your wallet.