Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 1500529 times)

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snyprrr

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1580 on: January 15, 2010, 07:33:51 AM »
So, I finally get to hear what the Tatrai sound like. I did a pretty full compare (Alberni, ABQ, Auryn, some Mosaiques, some Kodaly), and got some interesting results.

I went straight for the "Fifths", and what?, this version is curiously low powered. I went then to the "Emperor", and the sound level went up, and did the rest of the album, so, I'm wondering if the "Fifths" was recorded seperately. Either way, right now, the Mosaiques rule the "Fifths" for me. The Auryn are also very nice here.

The "Sunrise", No.4, in the first mvmt., has the same problems I've heard in so many versions (Auryn, Mosaiques). They just can't make the intro "magical." Right now I'm favoring the Orlando on Philips here.

The "Emperor" might be the best I've heard, and No.1 and No.5 come close to sweeping the field. As a group, the Tatrai can belong to the speed-demon group, with probably the fastest finales anywhere. The minor key finale of No.1 is breathtakingly thrilling compared to all-comers, as is the finale of No.3. When in doubt, turn to the Tatrai to deliver the goods.

No.6 is up for grabs, I think. No one really lets down here, though I think the Mosaiques are frighteningly sublime here.



I find myself thinking of the Festetics here, probably because both groups have that Hungarian thing going on? Both ensembles have a knife edge that makes each note glint like a diamond. The Tatrai have oodles more gusto though, playing at tempos the Festetics have never approached (in what I've heard).

The '60s recording is so homey you'll think your sitting in front of a fireplace sipping nog. The Tatrai certainly have that classic sound all the way around, which lends this recording a sense of authority that is comforting.

I was really surprised how my preconceived notions were played with. They didn't have as much of a wooden tone as I had been hoping for, but there are still plenty of rustic tones floating through the set. I really didn't hear any of the intonation issues I've heard about them (specifically Op.33). Their speed, also, was the big surprise; no one beats them in anything here. The Tatrai are one solid Oldsmobile, that's for sure.

BOTTOM LINE: except for an "eh" "Fifths", Op.76 receives classic treatment.

snyprrr

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1581 on: January 15, 2010, 08:02:58 AM »
oooo,... it's getting quite hairy in Op.20-land! I finally got the Dekany a month later, and, of course, went straight for No.5. And...and...

eh

big eh

The GOOD NEWS is that the Dekany have the most psychotically delirious No.3 I've heard. If you thought the Buchberger were nutz here, then check this out! Their finale is a barnburner! This may be a top-3 No.3.

Moving along to other Op.20 highlights, the Zingarese of No.4 is taken in the quick mode a la Buchberger and Lindsay, but here, both the BB and the Dekany fail to deliver the crispest cello. The Lindsays' cello may be the finest in all of Haydn.

The tricky first mvmt. of No.6 is not the best I've heard. No.6 seems to be the least considered member of Op.20, and the one most often flubbed. Here I like the Lindsays the best, with the Salomons and Mosaiques second.

The opening of No.2 is taken waaay too slow. The Capriccio starts off in "eh" mode, and then feels a bit too aggressive when the rhythm(will I ever learn to spell?) comes in. The menuet pretty well sucks eggs. Another one of the menuets (No.5?) also boggles, and, as I ponder, it seems that people who fail, fail big in menuets.

In mvmts. where most people play the same (first mvmt. of Nos. 1 & 4; finale of No.4) the Dekany (like the Ulbrich and Buchberger) really fail to distinguish themselves. Since these groups don't really have such a colorful tonal palette, some of the more standard issue mvmts. don't have anything unique to recommend them. The Great is the enemy of the good. I now have a collection of totally over-caffeinated fast mvmts. to choose from whenever I need an example of what NOT to do!

I'm going to lump the Dekany with the Ulbrich, and parts of the Buchberger, and, I suppose (according to Jens' review), the Kocian: groups that fail to totally distinguish themselves. The Buchbergers have their recklessness to commend them, but the others just don't speak to the standards that we are all used to here in this rep.

BOTTOM LINE: a demonic No.3, but a hot mess elsewhere, the Dekany are the spiritual forefathers of the Ulbrich and Buchbergers. Forever second-tier also ran. The Tatrai would probably be the direct compare, and I can't imagine the Dekany surviving.

Offline Tyson

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1582 on: January 15, 2010, 10:42:12 AM »
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 12:33:12 PM by Que »
At a loss for words.

jlaurson

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1583 on: January 15, 2010, 12:32:04 PM »
Loved your Glenlivet and Ardbeg analogy   :)

I'm glad someone picked up on it.  ;)

The analogy limps a little... I"m a big fan of Ardbeg. Ardbeg 10, that is.
Although the Uigeadail is unbelievably good and smooth. Like motor oil
and no 'alcohol' bit, which is astounding for a cask strength whisky.



And now, because you brought the topic up and I'm watching football:
Highland Park, 18 Years.

- - - -


And later: Haydn.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 01:43:48 PM by jlaurson »

Offline Tyson

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1584 on: January 18, 2010, 10:16:36 PM »
If you like Ardbeg (and I love it), you really MUST check out the Bestie - Ardbeg Airigh Nam Beist, the second best Ardbeg I've ever had, after the 1977 bottling.
At a loss for words.

snyprrr

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1585 on: January 19, 2010, 09:21:24 PM »
uh, hrrhmm,... exuse me, but we have a



Page 33 Bash!!


Yes, we now leave all things Op.20 behind (yea, likely not... I have a host of unresolved issues at the moment ???) and move along to the Big One, the one everyone points to as the big, influential set, the one that was written in the "new style", Op.33.

Next to the Opp. 9/17/20, I think I've quite taken to this first blueprint for what was to come in the next 12 or so years, and beyond. The first thing that stands out for me is the utter joyousness and playfulness and tunefulness of these SQs: the b minor and "Joke" finales, the slow mvmts. of 4-6 (especially 5-6), the first mvmt. of the "Bird"., and the really strangely beautiful meneut of said Bird. And on it goes.

Whereas Op.20 seems to me some Gothic Opera, Shakespearean, Op.33 seems like a magical enchanted forest of new ideas, not the least, humor. The to-the-pointness and fleetness of mvmts. also lends the set a rapid, over-before-you-know-it breathlessness. And the folksy, rustic quality of Op.20/6 here seems to take over. Does anyone else think this?

The only set I have is the Lindsays (I have heard the Kodalys) and, in this one set, I can't ask for anything more, really. I side with the Lindsay Lovers here. They can do no wrong here. The almost "silent movie" aspect to the music is carried to epic levels of emotion by this Most Romantic of Haydn interpreters. I hear the Auryn are the one to beat now, but, I think it will be a long time before it comes to my attention that there are other versions out there.

I remember hearing the Kodaly set first, at the time not really diggin' Haydn, and being taken with the almost beer hall atmosphere of the music and playing. In the ups and downs that is the Kodaly cycle, I think their Op.33 might have a legit hold on a top alternative second or third spot.

I'm having trouble imagining Op.33 as played HIP, a la Mosaiques, or, apparently the wildest of them all, the Apponyi. The Modern delicacy of the Lindsays suit this music so well that I can't imagine what the Apponyi, which people around here seem to mention in hushed tones (I've been trying to get their apparently only other recording of Boccherini SQs), sound like here. They'd certainly have to be light as a feather, which is why I wonder what the sometimes orchestral sounding QM make of this. Yes, I'm begging the question ::)!



A feature of Op.33 that also stands out for me is the way it's arranged. 1-4 have an Allegro moderato 1st, and Presto finale, whilst 5-6 have Vivace assai 1sts, and, strangely, Allegretto finales. 5-6 also have supremely expressive slow mvmts.

Though I have a particular boner for this whole set, some fav moments are:

1) the super fast finale of No.1

2) the "Joke" finale

3) slow mvmt. of No.4

4) the "Bird" menuet... verrry strangely creepy a la "witch's menuet"

5) slow mvmts. of 5-6



Whereas I still can't make heads or tails of Op.50, Op.33 was just an instant popular success to my ears, with things just endlessly revealing themselves (of course, with Op.50, this process is taking a wee bit longer ::)). Whereas, also,Op.50's homogenity is based on it's use of motives, Op.33, for me, achieves homogenity through it's absolute absorbtion of heterogenous elements,... does that make sense? Also, the sheer consistency of joy in this set is only matched, for me, by LvB's Op.18, which I think, is it's perfect answer.

Op.33 seems like a... poof!... out of nowhere set. By Op.50, Haydn was moving on, but some reminders of Op.33 pop up for me in 54/1 and in much of Op.64, which also appears to have a 1-4, 5-6 schematic. 64/1, 3, & 4 (and, of course, the b minor) seem to me an older Haydn's look back at Op.33, with 64/5-6 looking forward to Op.76.



Though I don't have any compares to offer, I do want to lift up the Lindsays here as thee most down home, comfy, lightning, deep toned, plucky, world -of-ideas approach one could wish for in such an all inclusive type music. To Lindsay Sceptics I would just say, They're pretty cheap on Amazon. I hear nothing but good stuff on this set, no strange moments. The instruments, and the recording, also, combine with the playing into what has to be one of thee all around absolute best Op.33s,...ever (Weller ;D)! Either way, this set just oozes "special".




snyprrr

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1586 on: January 22, 2010, 12:23:06 PM »
Jus frontin yo

kishnevi

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1587 on: January 22, 2010, 02:26:49 PM »

Though I don't have any compares to offer, I do want to lift up the Lindsays here as thee most down home, comfy, lightning, deep toned, plucky, world -of-ideas approach one could wish for in such an all inclusive type music. To Lindsay Sceptics I would just say, They're pretty cheap on Amazon. I hear nothing but good stuff on this set, no strange moments. The instruments, and the recording, also, combine with the playing into what has to be one of thee all around absolute best Op.33s,...ever (Weller ;D)! Either way, this set just oozes "special".

I'd better draw you attention to the relatively new set by the Cuarteto Casals on Harmonia Mundi.  I like it in general, but haven't played it enough to pick out particular details for comment.

I have one compilation set of the Lindsays recorded live "at the Genius of Haydn Festival"
(that, and "Haydn: Popular String Quartets" seem to be the closest thing to a title this set has),  in which Op. 33 is represented only by number 4; I don't recall anything special about their performance.

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1588 on: January 30, 2010, 01:57:59 PM »
Violin Concertos w/ Federico Guglielmo & L'Arte Dell'Arco, a period instrument group - the violin used is by Genmaro Gagliano, Naples 1757.  Papa Joe did not write many of these concertos despite having Luigi Tomasini as his concertmaster; from my New Grove Haydn book , these are Hob VIIa 1-4 - this disc contains Nos. 1, 3, & 4 (No. 2 apparently lost); No. 1 in C was noted to be written for Tomasini.  Of course, there are also some other 'spurious' listed works.

Recent recording (2008) on the Brilliant label - well done!  :D


Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1589 on: February 01, 2010, 07:36:22 AM »
Well, Dave, after reading this I reached into the Big Box for Disk #35 and spun it for the 1st time. I have to agree, it is a very nice performance. The entire ambiance screams HIP!. :)  For those who don't have these works and would like to give them a try, this disk would be a nice addition. :)

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karlhenning

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1590 on: February 01, 2010, 07:42:51 AM »
Is that true? About the pandas being harvested for Haydn, I mean . . . .

Franco

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1591 on: February 01, 2010, 07:48:50 AM »
Is that true? About the pandas being harvested for Haydn, I mean . . . .

Is that why he is called Panda Haydn?

karlhenning

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1592 on: February 01, 2010, 07:52:46 AM »
Oh, the horror!

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1593 on: February 01, 2010, 08:10:43 AM »
Is that true? About the pandas being harvested for Haydn, I mean . . . .

Well, Jens would know, he is situated at the home of the National Zoo, where the supply of baby pandas is the highest. :)

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karlhenning

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1594 on: February 01, 2010, 08:11:54 AM »
Coincidence? . . .

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1595 on: February 01, 2010, 08:14:56 AM »
Coincidence? . . .

I think not. I've never been 100% sure about Jens.... :-\

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Antoine Marchand

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1596 on: February 09, 2010, 07:38:33 AM »
Recently purchased during the Abeille Musique Rush:

6 Sonatas for Violin and Viola, Accent/ Christian Goosses, viola; Anton Steck, violin. Recommended by Gurn.

Haydn in London, Winter & Winter/ La Gaia Scienza

Haydn & his English Friends, Hyperion/ Psalmody - The Parley of Instruments, dir. Peter Holman

Haydn & The Art of Variation, Metronome/ Carole Cerasi, fortepiano & clavichord

 :)

 

Offline Opus106

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1597 on: February 09, 2010, 07:50:44 AM »
Haydn & The Art of Variation, Metronome/ Carole Cerasi, fortepiano & clavichord
 :)

I would love to know your opinion of this disc, Antoine. I love the Theme and Variations works, and those by Mozart are simply delightful: you know he's going to have a lot of fun with it when the piece begins with a rather simple-sounding tune. And of course, he does! I don't think I have heard anything by Haydn, particularly (apart from those he has employed, say, in string quartets and symphonies).
Regards,
Navneeth

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1598 on: February 09, 2010, 07:52:54 AM »
Recently purchased during the Abeille Musique Rush:

6 Sonatas for Violin and Viola, Accent/ Christian Goosses, viola; Anton Steck, violin. Recommended by Gurn.

Haydn in London, Winter & Winter/ La Gaia Scienza

Haydn & his English Friends, Hyperion/ Psalmody - The Parley of Instruments, dir. Peter Holman

Haydn & The Art of Variation, Metronome/ Carole Cerasi, fortepiano & clavichord

 :)

Ooh, that's a nice selection, Antoine. Some things I've been looking at for a while, like the Gaia Scienza and the Parley of Instruments disks. Please report back on those, I still have an opportunity to get them if they are 'can't live without' quality... :D

Also curious about the Cerasi. Been looking for more clavichord disks to go with the 3 I have now. Maybe duplicate though, I'll have to check. Glad you brought this one up, I never saw it before. :)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #1599 on: February 09, 2010, 07:55:15 AM »
I would love to know your opinion of this disc, Antoine. I love the Theme and Variations works, and those by Mozart are simply delightful: you know he's going to have a lot of fun with it when the piece begins with a rather simple-sounding tune. And of course, he does! I don't think I have heard anything by Haydn, particularly (apart from those he has employed, say, in string quartets and symphonies).

Navneeth,
You must get Hob XVII:6, it is his best keyboard work even including the sonatas. It is a set of double variations, alternating themes and alternating modes (major-minor-major-minor etc). Just sayin'...

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