Haydn's Haus

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 06, 2007, 04:15:04 PM

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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 25, 2011, 01:34:30 PM
Glad to help! :) (globey thingy worked for me too)

I noticed while perusing the profile setup that there was actually an (unused in my case) opening for a url. From there it was just details. :)

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Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on November 25, 2011, 01:23:21 PM
I read somewhere, a few years back now so I don't remember the source, that all of the known baryton trios from the early 19trh century on were only known in this way. So people believed that Haydn had composed well over 100 string trios. They were arranged for Violin, Viola & Cello, just like a 'modern' string trio. :-\

Yes! That explanation gives some historical support to these transcriptions because the baryton was always a rarity, even during its own time.  :)

Gurn Blanston

#3442
Part 14

1765
Things continued apace in this year. A few things of note though. Old Werner, in a fit of self-righteous crankiness, complained that Haydn wasn't doing his work thoroughly enough. Chances are it wasn't true, but the resultant kick in the pants he got spurred him on to a lot of new compositions in a short time.

Like this. Let's look at the Baryton Trios situation now, since we are at the start of a long line. Of course, we start with Book 1. It was published in 1766 in a private edition for the Prince (of course). But it was written over a 2 year period. It contains 24 trios, so I put them 12 in 1765 and 12 in 1766 (they actually are numbered, Halleluiah!) Anyone who attaches sufficient importance to want to know beyond doubt that there were actually 10 in 1765 and 14 in 1766 is beyond me already. I don't want to listen to more than 12 at a sitting, so that's what I went with. :D 

Music of 1765;
Hob 01_029 Symphony in E
   Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood
Hob 01_030 Symphony in C
   Concentus Musicus Wien / Harnoncourt
Hob 01_031 Symphony in D
   Hanover Band / Goodman Anthony Halstead (Natural Horn)
Hob 01_039 Symphony in g
   L'Estro Armonico / Solomons




Hob 05_21 Divertimento á tre in D for 2 Violins & Bass
   Camerata Berolinensis


Hob 11_001 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_002 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_003 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_004 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_005 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_006 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_007 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_008 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_009 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_010 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_011 Trio in D for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 11_012 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1
Hob 12_20 Divertimento in G for Baryton Solo
Hob 12_21 Divertimento in D for Baryton Solo
Hob 12_22 Divertimento in A for Baryton Solo
Hob 12_23 Divertimento in G for Baryton Solo
   Esterhazy Ensemble


Hob 14_12 Concertino in C for Keyboard
Hob 14_13 Divertimento in G for Keyboard
Hob 14_C2 Divertimento in C for Keyboard
   L'Arte dell'Arco / Loreggian


Hob 16_03 Sonata #14 in C for Keyboard
Hob 16_05a Sonata #28 in D for Keyboard (inc)
Hob 16_47 Sonata #19 in e for Keyboard
Hob 17_02 20 Variations in G on an Original Theme
   Christine Schornsheim


Hob 16_04 Sonata #9 in D for Keyboard
   Yuko Wataya


Hob 17_01 Capriccio in G for Clavichord
   Derek Adlam


Hob 23c_04a Responsoria de Venerabili   
        Tafelmusik / Bruno Weil


Some of my very favorites start showing up here. There is the Hornsignal Symphony (Halstead is in very fine form in this version too!), and the very first of the Stürm und Dräng symphonies, #39 in g minor. Sadly, the last certain string trio. I continue to press my belief that he only abandoned the form because of the time spent on Baryton works instead. Pity, since it would be until Mozart's K 563 before there would be some really good string trios around again. Boccherini's are very fine too, but they likely never made it to Vienna.

Also here is the Capriccio variation set on "Acht Sauschneider müssen sein" (an old folksong "It takes 8 strong men" (to castrate a boar)). This work marks a change in his keyboard style by presenting a fusion between ritornello/sonata form and variation form. I am particularly fond of Adlam's clavichord effort presented here. If you are a 'structure person', this is a good one to figure out. I couldn't do it with a road map, but maybe you... :)

And finally, a responsory. One of very few religious works he was allowed to write before Werner died the following year.

From this point on, I think that things get more interesting. If the music hasn't really grabbed you up to this point, things are about to change. Even if you only have a few of these, give them an attentive listen. I think you will see what the future holds. :)

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Haydn Sinfonietta Wien \ Huss - Hob 01_060 Symphony in C 4th mvmt - Presto
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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on November 25, 2011, 01:39:46 PM
Yes! That explanation gives some historical support to these transcriptions because the baryton was always a rarity, even during its own time.  :)

Very true. And gone altogether before the end of the 18th century. In order to make the baryton part suitable for the violin (it was written to be the lead anyway), it had to have been transposed up at least an octave. I would think that the only place where the tessitura of those instruments would intersect would be at the extremes for both. :)

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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

TheGSMoeller

#31 is one of my favorites. I know I've written about it before here, of course the horns throughout the piece are memorable, but I love the solo instruments in the Adagio and the "variation" Finale.

Would love to see what some other's recording of choice is of #31.


Gurn Blanston

#3445
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 25, 2011, 02:34:20 PM
#31 is one of my favorites. I know I've written about it before here, of course the horns throughout the piece are memorable, but I love the solo instruments in the Adagio and the "variation" Finale.

Would love to see what some other's recording of choice is of #31.

Yup, hard to dislike if you have any love at all for horn work. Along with its partner, #72.

Of course, you already know my favorite. :)

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Now playing:
  Hanover Band; Goodman  Anthony Halstead (Natural Horn) - Hob 01_031 Symphony in D 1st mvmt - Allegro
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SonicMan46

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on November 25, 2011, 12:12:34 PM
Here is a crazy stab at making an index page while it is early times yet. Whoever has a brilliant idea on how to make it follow us, short of going back and bumping it regularly, needs to jump in and say so.............

Hello Gurn - GREAT 'first stab' at your 'index' - the link to your 'globe' worked for me - not sure what the best way is to offer this on a convenient basis but will give it some thought - just wondering whether you're planning to write a book on this chronological review of Papa Joe's works?  Dave :)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 25, 2011, 04:03:07 PM
Hello Gurn - GREAT 'first stab' at your 'index' - the link to your 'globe' worked for me - not sure what the best way is to offer this on a convenient basis but will give it some thought - just wondering whether you're planning to write a book on this chronological review of Papa Joe's works?  Dave :)

Thanks, Dave. Yes, it does seem to work and I must say it is handy, even for me. :)

I don't know. I am researching as one would to write a book, but haven't decided where to go with it yet. Since no real writer or musical historian has seen fit to do anything like this (at least for the non-doctoral candidate audience ::) ) maybe it will be something to think about. Right now, it is an effort to satisfy my curiosity. :)

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Now playing:
  Esterhazy Ensemble - Hob 11_001 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1 4th mvmt - Presto
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Bogey

Thanks for making this happen!  Very cool!  I cannot wait to start reading it tomorrow.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on November 25, 2011, 04:39:05 PM
Thanks, Dave. Yes, it does seem to work and I must say it is handy, even for me. :)

I don't know. I am researching as one would to write a book, but haven't decided where to go with it yet. Since no real writer or musical historian has seen fit to do anything like this (at least for the non-doctoral candidate audience ::) ) maybe it will be something to think about. Right now, it is an effort to satisfy my curiosity. :)

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Now playing:
  Esterhazy Ensemble - Hob 11_001 Trio in A for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1 4th mvmt - Presto

Well, at least a Haydn web page....or contribute your work to one you favor.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Opus106

Hehe... I actually wanted to suggest that segments be posted in a separate thread instead of the Haus, when you began the story of Haydn, but given the way the discussions surrounding the instalments seemed to the drag it away from being a sequence, I did not mention it. Glad to see this here -- I'm sure it'll be very helpful like Sara's index for composers*. :) Thanks.




*Perhaps she could provide a link to this thread there also.
Regards,
Navneeth

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Bogey on November 25, 2011, 08:23:31 PM
Well, at least a Haydn web page....or contribute your work to one you favor.

Well, that's what I'm doing now... :)  Really, this is just a skeletal outline, basically to highlight important events and to force a music chronology tied to them. However the end result turns out, at least I will have learned something on the way. And my fellow Haydnistos will have done the same, and helped each other out too. Win:Win!

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Now playing:
  Christine Schornsheim - Hob 16_04 Sonata #9 in D for Clavichord 2nd mvmt - Menuet
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Bogey

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on November 26, 2011, 06:16:29 AM
Well, that's what I'm doing now... :)  Really, this is just a skeletal outline, basically to highlight important events and to force a music chronology tied to them. However the end result turns out, at least I will have learned something on the way. And my fellow Haydnistos will have done the same, and helped each other out too. Win:Win!

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Now playing:
  Christine Schornsheim - Hob 16_04 Sonata #9 in D for Clavichord 2nd mvmt - Menuet

I bet there are some all Haydn sites that would enjoy it as well....heck, sell to the highest bidder! :D
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Bogey on November 26, 2011, 06:42:46 AM
I bet there are some all Haydn sites that would enjoy it as well....heck, sell to the highest bidder! :D

And if I didn't, would it be Love's Labor Lost?  0:)

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Now playing:
  Christine Schornsheim - Hob 17_02 20 Variations in G on an Original Theme pt 10 - Variation IX
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Elgarian

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on November 26, 2011, 06:16:29 AM
And my fellow Haydnistos will have done the same, and helped each other out too. Win:Win!

I'm hoping I shall have internet access, and so still be able to keep on following you, from debtor's prison.

(Well done with the index by the way - invaluable, and thank you.)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Elgarian on November 26, 2011, 08:20:57 AM
I'm hoping I shall have internet access, and so still be able to keep on following you, from debtor's prison.

(Well done with the index by the way - invaluable, and thank you.)

Crikey, Alan, I really am sorry about that. When I started out I didn't realize the thing was a contagion. :-\

On the upside, I understand that the more enlightened prisons these days grant Internet access due to its being considered cruel and unusual punishment to be without.   :D

You're welcome, by the way. Glad I could get it working before the entire became too unwieldy. :)

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Now playing:
  Academy of Ancient Music; Hogwood - Hob 01_028 Symphony in A 2nd mvmt - Poco adagio
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Opus106 on November 25, 2011, 11:40:07 PM
Hehe... I actually wanted to suggest that segments be posted in a separate thread instead of the Haus, when you began the story of Haydn, but given the way the discussions surrounding the instalments seemed to the drag it away from being a sequence, I did not mention it. Glad to see this here -- I'm sure it'll be very helpful like Sara's index for composers*. :) Thanks.




*Perhaps she could provide a link to this thread there also.

Thanks, Navneeth. Actually, I was hoping yesterday that you would wander by since you are always full of good ideas. But we did seem to have worked it out. It is still editable, which is a good thing, I think. :)

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Now playing:
  Esterhazy Ensemble - Hob 12_03 & 5 Duet in D for 2 Barytons 2nd mvmt - Menuet: Allegretto
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

While pondering some input I got from James (who seems to be a wizard of some sort!) I realized that there was no need for another thread to link the index to. I merged it into this very same thread and updated the link and get precisely the same results. This is good, and less space consuming. Thanks, James. if you weren't a closet Haydnisto, I would have never thought of this. :)

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Now playing:
  Esterhazy Ensemble - Hob 11_014 Trio in D for Baryton, Viola & Cello Book 1 1st mvmt - Adagio
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Elgarian

OK, OK - call me a simpleton, if you will (no wait, dammit - not all at once! Form a queue for pity's sake!), but ...


Where has the Index gone? There it was, so bright and clear, like a guiding star through strange and unfamiliar territory  - and now it's gone. Where is it? What happened? I read some stuff about James having suggested some kind of wizard wheeze, and now ... was it a disappearing trick? It's gone, and I can't find it!

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Elgarian on November 26, 2011, 11:25:28 AM
OK, OK - call me a simpleton, if you will (no wait, dammit - not all at once! Form a queue for pity's sake!), but ...


Where has the Index gone? There it was, so bright and clear, like a guiding star through strange and unfamiliar territory  - and now it's gone. Where is it? What happened? I read some stuff about James having suggested some kind of wizard wheeze, and now ... was it a disappearing trick? It's gone, and I can't find it!

Oh, I see, you got to it direct. Well, click the little globe icon on my sidebar and it brings you there too. Once there, it works just the same way. Still not the neatest thing (opens up extra tabs), but works good. :)

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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)