Topic: Haydn's Haus

[Harry]

Harry,
It may have seemed that I was directing that at you, but I wasn't. This set has been discussed in depth here before, and several people have said that the London's suck so bad that they wouldn't have the set. Which is not only untrue, but most unfortunate, since, as I said, they not only don't suck, they are merely the weakest in the set, and then, only in comparison to all the fine versions around.

I would love to see a complete HIP cycle, but it seems that every effort ends up beached.

O, dear, well my mistake, I am sorry. I thought your arrows were directed at me. Glad it is not so.
And we are in one mind about the Fischer set, that's good too!

[Bunny]

At $61.49 for 4 CDs, the ArkivMusic price, it damn well ought to be satisfying.  Szell/Cleveland recorded the first 6 Londons, and they were issued on CD, but there are hard to find these days.  I would recommend the Jochum set as a generally satisfying and interpretively moderate set.  Another good set of some of them is a Klemperer box; this is BIG, old fashioned, full orchestra Haydn, but he does divide 1st and 2nd violins, which is a big point in their favor.  And his Sym 102 will just make you jump out of your seat.

I haven't heard the Solti set.  Has anyone here heard it?  I am thinking about maybe getting it.

Ouch!  The price is high because it's a Japanese import.  The price will probably stay high because the dollar is so devalued now.  I found it at Amazon for quite a bit less when I bought it.  It's still there starting at about $42.00 which while more than I paid, is still quite a bit less than Arkiv. 

[Steve]

Glad to hear that the Fischer set is receiving praise here on the forum. After some sampling, I've decided to add it to my shopping cart today. Harry, you've reccomended the Dorati set - in your opinion, would it be helpful to have both the Fischer and Dorati recordings, or would one suffice? Are you familiar with the Jochum? I generally enjoy his renditions, and so I will be looking to aqiuire those also. Anyone have a tip on where to find the Jochum/Dorati renditions?  

[DavidW]

Alkan, Harnoncourt is what I have too, it's very nice.

What I want to hear is transcriptions for chamber ensembles... has any recordings been made for that quirky angle?

[Harry]

Glad to hear that the Fischer set is receiving praise here on the forum. After some sampling, I've decided to add it to my shopping cart today. Harry, you've reccomended the Dorati set - in your opinion, would it be helpful to have both the Fischer and Dorati recordings, or would one suffice? Are you familiar with the Jochum? I generally enjoy his renditions, and so I will be looking to aqiuire those also. Anyone have a tip on where to find the Jochum/Dorati renditions?  

If you have the Fischer, you do not need the Dorati! I found that both sets have their merit, but I bought the Dorati first, long time ago, and then the Fischer came along for a measly 50 euro's, so I bought that too, and never regretted it!
The big band Haydn's are not my cup of tea, so other posters will answer that my friend.

[alkan]

DavidW, I do remember that there was a recording by the Salomon Quartet and the Academy of Ancient Music Chamber Ensemble (Archiv) of symphs 94, 100 and 104.      I heard it on the radio once and it was wonderful.    Unfortunately it has been OOP for years.   I too would be very happy to find a copy of this.     I just checked Amazon, but drew a blank.

[Haffner]

Urgent call for Andy!

BuyBuyBuy! Those recordings are tops for the Allegro movements alone. Not to mention the awe-inspiring slow movement of the "Miracle" Symphony.

Fischer makes boo-boos in some of the menuetti, as Harry so observantly pointed out. And overall, the Dorati set is probably superior (especially in regrd to the older symphonies and the above mentioned menuetti). But if you even like Haydn, and want to hear some extremely inspirational renditions of his Allegro movements in particular, BUY IMMEDIATELY!

[Haffner]

I have some reservations also. That listeners should quit Haydn symphonies after the Oxford.

The Miracle, Drumroll, Military, London...


riiiiiiight.

[Haffner]

Lets say from Symphony No. 1-88, there is no problem at all, the best performances you could wish, both in sound and in interpretation!
My principal concern is with 89-103, but the problem is not that big, that I would not buy it again.
Not sound, because that is good! But those were recorded first, and Fischer was clearly searching the right mould. You can hear that mostly in the menuets, very stiff upper collar, as with all the menuets from Dorati. And he tends to take the Allegro's and Presto to slow, not always mind, but he does. Furthermore, he just wants to be grand in the name symphonies, and that tends to sound somewhat overblown.
So reading your wishes, Fischer would do just fine.

That said the Fischer set is a must for all Haydn admirers, and I would not like to be without it.
Have the Dorati set too, and that is also a must for me!

Agree with all Harry's feelings except on the "Miracle"s (both the misnamed no.96 as well as the autentico "Miracle", 102). You can't get better for sheer brilliance of sound throughout these two Symphonies, as well as a dazzlingly inspirational amount of depth on the slow stuff. But those qualities might not have been what Haydn was aiming for (or what Harry prefers in his Haydn interpretations, which I respect).

[DavidW]

Thanks Alkan, it's a shame that the recording is oop, would have been neat to hear.

[alkan]

DavidW, yes I agree.     I only heard no 94 on the radio and it sounded very much like it was arranged for SQ plus flute plus continuo.
It was quite a revelation.

I dearly wanted to buy the CD out of sheer curiosity to see what they would do for the Turkish percussion section of the Military !!!!!!

But there is always hope that it will reappear one day.      Look at the Fischer set (the orginal of this thread) now re-issued by Brilliant at an incredible price ......       

[jwinter]

I haven't heard the Solti set.  Has anyone here heard it?  I am thinking about maybe getting it.

I have it and enjoy it quite a bit.  I'm generally not a big Solti fan (I loathe his Mahler and Beethoven for example), but his Haydn is quite nice, very energetic and well-recorded.  I actually prefer it to the much-touted Colin Davis set. 

That said, the ones with Szell are well worth hunting down.  And the Fischer set is a no brainer if it's within your budget -- the Londons are not the highlight of the set, as others have pointed out, but it's a great bargain nonetheless.

[Steve]

Well I'm pleased to hear that the Fischer comes reccomended. Seeing as it has been pointed out that the London Symphonies are a low-point in an otherwise fantastic cycle, I opted for the complete set. That does however still leave me searching for the ideal rendition of these London Symphonies. I am tempted to try and hunt down the Szell, and the Jochum does appear to be well liked here. I see the Jochum on sale for only $40 on DG . That does sound tempting. Any other comments/suggestions?

DavidW, I do remember that there was a recording by the Salomon Quartet and the Academy of Ancient Music Chamber Ensemble (Archiv) of symphs 94, 100 and 104.      I heard it on the radio once and it was wonderful.    Unfortunately it has been OOP for years.   I too would be very happy to find a copy of this.     I just checked Amazon, but drew a blank.

I'd be interested in the fruits of this search. 94 and 104 are two of my favourite Haydn symphonies. I have listened to other chamber pieces with the Acadamy of Ancient Music and have been pleasantly surprised. I hope you can locate these.


Here's the Fischer Set I purchased this morning...



and here's the Jochum Set



Thanks.

[alkan]

I tracked down the reference of the chamber arrangement (by Salomon himself !!) of symphs 94, 100, 101.

It is Decca, L'oiseau-Lyre   443 194-20M

Source is the Academy of Ancient Music site     www.aam.co.uk


Szell is great for the early Londons but he did not record all 12.      Sound quality is not state of the art, but the readings are great.   My personal favourites are nos 97 and 94   .....   the horns and brass in 97 are amazing and quite startling.

I heard a few Jochum Londons on the radio and they didn't woo me away from Harnoncourt.      I found some of the allegro movements a bit hard-driven and rushed.   

[Haffner]

I started out with the Beecham recordings of the late Symphonies, and I've always enjoyed the performances, but been irritated by the sound.

[Gurn Blanston]

I have 94, 95 & 101-104 with Collegum Musicum 90 / Hickox. I will give them another listen (it's been 6 months or so) and get back to you on it.

And I am nearly finished with that lovely little project right now. These are very nice interps, the playing is upbeat and explores these 6 symphonies very nicely. Tempi are brisk, as would be expected, and the clarity of the recordings is top-notch. So there ARE at least half of the London Symphonies on period instruments, without going to Japan, and they are really very good! Amazon has them both in stock (on Chandos, BTW). Wonder if Vols. 3 & 4 are in the works?

[SonicMan46]

Gurn, please tell me: are those performances good?
Because I believe they have been reissued as a 2CD set!
€20 at jpc, that's not bad for a small (tiny  ) label...

Q - sorry, coming in late to this thread (don't know why w/ one of my favorite composers!) - I have a half dozen Haydn Baryton discs, including the 2-CD set pictured - I concur w/ Gurn - go for it (which you may already have w/ a 2 wk+ delay?  ) - Dave

[SonicMan46]

Gurn - sorry about posting on the Piano Trios, but this 'edited' post got BURIED in the 'listening thread', and may be more appropriate here, anyway - 

I've just gone through the first 5 discs (of 10) of the Haydn Piano Trios w/ the Van Swieten Trio - Bart van Oort on the fortepiano (after Walter, 1795) along w/ several violinists, cellists, & a flautist (3 of the pieces in the set) - all period instruments, i.e. about as HIP, as possible!  As a result, the blending of the fortepiano w/ the violin & cello is phenomenal (cello going along w/ the left hand of the pianist; violin for the right hand) - doubt this 'effect' could be accomplished w/ modern instruments - these are DDD recordings made just several years ago, and on the Brilliant label!

Check out the review by David Bryson on Amazon; BTW, I paid about $33 for this set on the Amazon Marketplace; presently, being offered at BRO for $30! You may not want 40+ Haydn 'Piano Trios' but @ $3 a disc, what's there to lose? 

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - sorry about posting on the Piano Trios, but this 'edited' post got BURIED in the 'listening thread', and may be more appropriate here, anyway - 

I've just gone through the first 5 discs (of 10) of the Haydn Piano Trios w/ the Van Swieten Trio - Bart van Oort on the fortepiano (after Walter, 1795) along w/ several violinists, cellists, & a flautist (3 of the pieces in the set) - all period instruments, i.e. about as HIP, as possible!  As a result, the blending of the fortepiano w/ the violin & cello is phenomenal (cello going along w/ the left hand of the pianist; violin for the right hand) - doubt this 'effect' could be accomplished w/ modern instruments - these are DDD recordings made just several years ago, and on the Brilliant label!

Check out the review by David Bryson on Amazon; BTW, I paid about $33 for this set on the Amazon Marketplace; presently, being offered at BRO for $30! You may not want 40+ Haydn 'Piano Trios' but @ $3 a disc, what's there to lose? 

That's more than OK, Dave, this is his Haus, after all! Perfect place for Hausmusik!

Luke has also been touting this set, I can't see how I can let it go by at this point. I have the BAT set already, and all the Trio 1790 disks so far (6), but really, this is too good a chance to miss. Glad you bumped this thread too, I was thinking of going hunting for it. Great minds...

[Harry]

Gurn - sorry about posting on the Piano Trios, but this 'edited' post got BURIED in the 'listening thread', and may be more appropriate here, anyway - 

I've just gone through the first 5 discs (of 10) of the Haydn Piano Trios w/ the Van Swieten Trio - Bart van Oort on the fortepiano (after Walter, 1795) along w/ several violinists, cellists, & a flautist (3 of the pieces in the set) - all period instruments, i.e. about as HIP, as possible!  As a result, the blending of the fortepiano w/ the violin & cello is phenomenal (cello going along w/ the left hand of the pianist; violin for the right hand) - doubt this 'effect' could be accomplished w/ modern instruments - these are DDD recordings made just several years ago, and on the Brilliant label!

Check out the review by David Bryson on Amazon; BTW, I paid about $33 for this set on the Amazon Marketplace; presently, being offered at BRO for $30! You may not want 40+ Haydn 'Piano Trios' but @ $3 a disc, what's there to lose? 

Well I ordered it too me Dave!
I had it on loan by a friend of mine, but its so good, that for 22,00 euro's this is a must, for all Haydn lovers.