Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

A post of surpassingly excellent coolness, O Gurn. Stop me if I've said this already, but this concerto is a sentimental favorite of mine, the very first Haydn for me not merely to have played, but ever to have heard. I must have been in ninth or tenth grade, and a trumpeter who was one grade ahead of me was easily the finest student musician in the school. (We've since gotten back in touch, thanks to the miracle of the internet.) So, this schoolmate of mine was the soloist, and we played the accompaniment in band transcription (talk about as non-PI as you can get).

I still remember, as if it were yesterday, the magic woven upon me by the first movement: simplicity itself, but a grace, and a profound sweetness. Incredible, and I cannot really put it into words.

It wasn't until a good deal later that I discovered that I wished to be a composer. But playing the Haydn was an earlier watershed, and I knew I should never give up playing clarinet while I have breath.

That is so cool, Karl! I didn't know any of that background, but it does explain your (surprising?) interest in Haydn. It was also my first Haydn concerto. Back in the days when Haydn was just symphonies to me, I also listened to some jazz, and I saw Wynton Marsalis' disk of this work and picked it up out of curiosity. Needless to say I was delighted with, and that's what started me exploring other dimensions of Haydn. Still working on that 20 years later...




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Now playing:

Arion Baroque Orchestra \ Gary Cooper - Hob 01_044 Symphony in e 2nd mvmt - Menuetto - Trio

[Gurn Blanston]

There.  You've talked me into getting the three I don't already have.  Satsfied?

On the upside, it is a relatively small expense for the potential listening delight...   0:)

Only in GMG would the phrase "relatively small" be appled to a 100 disc collection.

   My CDCDCD has just totally ruined me, Jeffrey. And on reflection, I might add that it was thoughtlessly applied too. Woe is me!

[kishnevi]

That is so cool, Karl! I didn't know any of that background, but it does explain your (surprising?) interest in Haydn. It was also my first Haydn concerto. Back in the days when Haydn was just symphonies to me, I also listened to some jazz, and I saw Wynton Marsalis' disk of this work and picked it up out of curiosity. Needless to say I was delighted with, and that's what started me exploring other dimensions of Haydn. Still working on that 20 years later...

I wouldn't be surprised if humanity can be divided into four categories
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Surprise Symphony
Those whose first experience of Haydn  was the Trumpet Concerto
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Keyboard Concerto in D Major
Those who have yet to experience any Haydn at all.

I suppose there are folks whose first Haydn was something else, but the number is probably mathematically trivial.

[chasmaniac]

I wouldn't be surprised if humanity can be divided into four categories
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Surprise Symphony
Those whose first experience of Haydn  was the Trumpet Concerto
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Keyboard Concerto in D Major
Those who have yet to experience any Haydn at all.

I suppose there are folks whose first Haydn was something else, but the number is probably mathematically trivial.

Opus 71 SQs. But they worked a similar trick. I remain fascinated and vastly entertained by string chamber music of that era. Papa teaches us well. As to the trumpet number, mine only is by Hardenberger, and I'll be auditing it shortly.

Great stuff Gurn.

[Sergeant Rock]

Obviously I don't try to create a general theory on this matter. I simply explained my own reasons to not sharing the apparent consensus on the excellence of Minkowski's recordings. In my opinion he is a gifted artisan, but not a great artist. When I wrote "humanity" and "divinity", I was specially thinking of his B-Minor Mass, where is quite evident (to me!) that all is well sung, but without getting a real sense of transcendence (as Leonhardt, for instance, among many other examples). Regarding Haydn my favorite kind of director is one like Kuijken (but equally Brüggen or the ongoing Londons by Weil), who is serious, but also ironic, long-breathed and so... But I repeat, I don't intend to persuade to anybody about this because it's just my opinion, subjective by definition

I appreciate this elaboration and clarification of your original posts on the subject. Thanks.

Minkowski is not one of my favorite directors, even if the entire world thinks that he is the freaking god of the orchestral direction. 

I don't think he is. The freaking god of orchestral direction is obviously George Szell 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Surprise Symphony

That would be me. A music appreciation teacher in fourth grade exposed us to "named" symphonies: Surprise, Unfinished, New World, etc.

Sarge

[SonicMan46]

That is so cool, Karl! I didn't know any of that background, but it does explain your (surprising?) interest in Haydn. It was also my first Haydn concerto. Back in the days when Haydn was just symphonies to me, I also listened to some jazz, and I saw Wynton Marsalis' disk of this work and picked it up out of curiosity. Needless to say I was delighted with, and that's what started me exploring other dimensions of Haydn. Still working on that 20 years later...

Gurn - thanks for your excellent description of the 'history' of Papa's Trumpet Concerto and the discussion of the PI recordings; I have the ones w/ Friedrich and Pinnock.

But in the quote above, I must say that my first experience w/ this work was the Wynton Marsalis disc which I obtained when first released (probably early to middle 1980s just after the purchase of my first CD player) - likely started me on not only collecting more Haydn, i.e. symphonies & SQs, but also on exploring his other output! 

[Gurn Blanston]

I wouldn't be surprised if humanity can be divided into four categories
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Surprise Symphony
Those whose first experience of Haydn  was the Trumpet Concerto
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Keyboard Concerto in D Major
Those who have yet to experience any Haydn at all.

I suppose there are folks whose first Haydn was something else, but the number is probably mathematically trivial.

The other work(s) I would add, which I discovered during the course of my previous series of essays, is the Op 76 string quartets. I was surprised how many, like myself, took their interest in Haydn, string quartets, and chamber music in general from a disk of Op 76 #1-3.

[Gurn Blanston]

Opus 71 SQs. But they worked a similar trick. I remain fascinated and vastly entertained by string chamber music of that era. Papa teaches us well. As to the trumpet number, mine only is by Hardenberger, and I'll be auditing it shortly.

Great stuff Gurn.

Thanks, Chas. Maybe there will be a few revisits of the Trumpet Concerto this weekend. That'll be cool!  0:)

[TheGSMoeller]

I wouldn't be surprised if humanity can be divided into four categories
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Surprise Symphony
Those whose first experience of Haydn  was the Trumpet Concerto
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Keyboard Concerto in D Major
Those who have yet to experience any Haydn at all.

I suppose there are folks whose first Haydn was something else, but the number is probably mathematically trivial.

Well, Jeffrey, I fall into the "Trumpet Concerto" category...I played trumpet in high school, along with French horn and T. sax, and picked up a disc of Wynton Marsalis playing several concertos, one being the Haydn, immediately in love with the music.

[Gurn Blanston]

That would be me. A music appreciation teacher in fourth grade exposed us to "named" symphonies: Surprise, Unfinished, New World, etc.

Sarge

Well, me too actually. As I mentioned in this space a few months back, my very first Haydn was my father's old LP of #94 & 100. I wish I could hear that LP again today...

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - thanks for your excellent description of the 'history' of Papa's Trumpet Concerto and the discussion of the PI recordings; I have the ones w/ Friedrich and Pinnock.

But in the quote above, I must say that my first experience w/ this work was the Wynton Marsalis disc which I obtained when first released (probably early to middle 1980s just after the purchase of my first CD player) - likely started me on not only collecting more Haydn, i.e. symphonies & SQs, but also on exploring his other output! 

Thanks, Dave. You were the one who first pointed out the Friedrich to me, I'm glad the price came down from where it was at that time. There must have been a re-release. Anyway, glad I got it.

Hard not to like that Marsalis, despite the amount of self-indulgence in it. He has the skill and talent to bring off self-indulgence with flair! 

[Uncle Connie]

I wouldn't be surprised if humanity can be divided into four categories
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Surprise Symphony
Those whose first experience of Haydn  was the Trumpet Concerto
Those whose first experience of Haydn was the Keyboard Concerto in D Major
Those who have yet to experience any Haydn at all.

I suppose there are folks whose first Haydn was something else, but the number is probably mathematically trivial.

Oh, well, of course you knew that by writing that, you'd cause the members of the League of Exceptions to swarm out of the woodwork....

Symphony 57.  Szymon Goldberg.  On the radio, meaning that when I ran out and bought the LP, I also got Symphony 44, and the rocket ship has been ascending ever since.

[Uncle Connie]

Can't resist, Gurn - here's a link

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3151-SCHERBAUM-MICHAELS-Haydn-Trumpet/dp/B004AVZ4KG/ref=sr_1_32?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1335054444&sr=1-32

to just one copy, for sale in England, of the REAL first recording of the trumpet con. on a keyed trumpet.  Adolf Scherbaum, Munich Ch. Orch., Hans Stadlmair.  Of course the orchestra itself wasn't PI - they didn't have such things in those days - but they came as close as that era knew how to.  The same disc has the horn con. and a Molter clarinet con., and those instruments too were replicated originals.  A very, very nice disc in its day, and gave us all a taste of what was to come.  I haven't heard it in aeons, of course; but the thought occurred to me, wouldn't the keyed trumpet solo have seemed a bit odd against an orchestra with modern trumpets?  Perhaps now, knowing what we know, but at the time I doubt anybody gave that problem a thought.  Or maybe Stadlmair subordinated the orchestral trumpets enough to minimize the contrast, which as I recall was only really blatant in the highest registers where the keyed trumpet was really shrill and squeaky, and the modern trumpets couldn't go anyway.  In any case, that's something of which there remains no memory.

Conrad, the fount of nostalgia, at your service. 

[kishnevi]

Oh, well, of course you knew that by writing that, you'd cause the members of the League of Exceptions to swarm out of the woodwork....

Symphony 57.  Szymon Goldberg.  On the radio, meaning that when I ran out and bought the LP, I also got Symphony 44, and the rocket ship has been ascending ever since.

"The exception probes the rule"  [that's supposed to be the original version,  before it got distorted by demotic phonics]

I figured the exceptions would make themselves heard.  But it would be interesting to see how true that is, because those are the works by Haydn that have entered the pop culture most easily.   (Although I probably should have also listed the Farewell Symphony.)

For myself, it would almost certainly be the Surprise Symphony,  from a record my mother bought me when I was about seven years old.

ETA: Of course, it took me a good while longer to become a Haydnisto!

[Gurn Blanston]

Here is from a list I have of all known recordings of this work. No doubt at all that Scherbaum is there, but no mention that he used anything but a standard instrument

Artist                  Orchestra                          Record Label                 Year
Scherbaum, Adolf    Strings from the NDR Symphony Orchestra    Archiv Production (ARC 3151)    1959
Scherbaum, Adolf    Sinfonie-Orchester des NDR    DG 30592 EPL    1960
Scherbaum, Adolf     Sinfonie-Orchester des NDR    DG 2535288    1960

So I had seen that in there, but no mention at all of a keyed trumpet. That is very interesting information, Conrad.

Here is another anomaly, which is really only one because I got the list AND the info that there are only 4 recordings from the same person!

Cassone, Gabriele (keyed trumpet)    Academia Montis Regalis, Alessandro De Marchi    Amadeus (AM-148-2)    2003

I am very familiar with that orchestra, they are PI all the way, so I have no doubt that this disk is out there somewhere....

[Uncle Connie]

"The exception probes the rule"  [that's supposed to be the original version,  before it got distorted by demotic phonics]

I figured the exceptions would make themselves heard.  But it would be interesting to see how true that is, because those are the works by Haydn that have entered the pop culture most easily.   (Although I probably should have also listed the Farewell Symphony.)

For myself, it would almost certainly be the Surprise Symphony,  from a record my mother bought me when I was about seven years old.

ETA: Of course, it took me a good while longer to become a Haydnisto!

I suppose it's only fair to admit that the 57th, Goldberg, is the first Haydn music I can remember hearing.  Now of course, this isn't to say that I hadn't heard something else and simply paid no attention.  I would have been in high school in those days, and by no means a focused listener.  (I do know that my parents had no Haydn in their collection of 78s.  They never graduated to LPs.)

[Uncle Connie]

Here is from a list I have of all known recordings of this work. No doubt at all that Scherbaum is there, but no mention that he used anything but a standard instrument

Artist                  Orchestra                          Record Label                 Year
Scherbaum, Adolf    Strings from the NDR Symphony Orchestra    Archiv Production (ARC 3151)    1959
Scherbaum, Adolf    Sinfonie-Orchester des NDR    DG 30592 EPL    1960
Scherbaum, Adolf     Sinfonie-Orchester des NDR    DG 2535288    1960

So I had seen that in there, but no mention at all of a keyed trumpet. That is very interesting information, Conrad.

Here is another anomaly, which is really only one because I got the list AND the info that there are only 4 recordings from the same person!

Cassone, Gabriele (keyed trumpet)    Academia Montis Regalis, Alessandro De Marchi    Amadeus (AM-148-2)    2003

I am very familiar with that orchestra, they are PI all the way, so I have no doubt that this disk is out there somewhere....

Ho-kay.  Now you've gotten me questioning myself, and I dug in a bit.

It seems that Adolf Scherbaum (1909-2000) was the pioneer of the Baroque "Bach" trumpet, but he didn't actually use a replicated instrument.  What he did instead was invent a special mouthpiece, and a special way of blowing into it, that gave him the ability to play the Baroque high notes that were normally not playable; and so he became THE man for, e.g. the 2d Brandenburg (one site claims more than 400 performances and at least six recordings) and by extension a lot of other Baroque and early classical trumpet music.  He was the one who revived, for instance, one of the two Michael Haydn concertos, which are all but impossible on a modern instrument. 

But you're right, there's no mention of a keyed trumpet.  On the other hand, he did play that DG Arkiv recording AS WRITTEN, I specifically recall those giddy high notes and the written documentation that discussed the range of the keyed trumpet etc. etc.  So I'm thinking:  Did Scherbaum actually USE a keyed trumpet, or merely EMULATE one?  And has my memory remembered hearing an EMULATION and translated after at least 30 years to actual PLAYING?  To answer that fully I suppose I'd have to go find a copy of one of the LP issues (there were at least three different pressings, but apparently just one performance - and I gather I was wrong about the orchestra, the Munich Chamber w/Stadlmair accompanied the Molter clarinet concerto, the NDR "strings" (well, that is what it says!!) under Christoph Stepp played the two Haydn; makes some sense as Scherbaum was first trumpet of the NDR).  At the quoted price of the one I found in the UK, no thanks; I can't play LPs anyway.

If it's of any interest, the first performance I ever  heard was even earlier, on the Haydn Society LP with Helmut Wobitsch and Anton Heiller.  Very good for its day though of course not even remotely PP except size of the orchestra.  A bit later came the really spectacular (for its day) Kenneth Schermerhorn one, with the orchestration touched up to make it glitzier.  The trumpet playing was fabulous and that LP sold quite a few copies because of all the brilliance - but nothing was authentic at all.  It sounded wonderful and wrong all at the same time

And then came Scherbaum and what I long THOUGHT was Haydn done as correctly as was possible at the time.        Well, maybe that is true no matter what.  In 1960 they really weren't yet much into the building of replicated instruments.     

[Uncle Connie]

Okay, here's a perfect example of one of the greatest things I'm discovering about this whole Forum thing.  Something piques my interest, I start following threads to learn things, and suddenly I come across something I hadn't known existed.

Gurn started in on the trumpet concerto, and I had some (apparently faulty) memories to share, and then I went off in pursuit of other things (trying to track down that Amadeus CD he mentioned - no luck yet), and suddenly I encountered this:


[asin]B000J10JUQ[/asin] 


Now if you link to it, so as to get the thumbnail of the back paper with the track listings, you'll notice a Michael Haydn serenade with sections shown as 'Concerto for Bassoon' and 'Concerto for Trumpet.'  (That's in addition to a stand-alone concerto for trumpet earlier on the disc.)  That serenade, my friends, is catalogue MH 133, and the first three movements are a Symphony - one of only three of his that I don't have.  I do own the one-movement Bassoon part, and the two-movement Trumpet concerto, but not the rest.  And so my collection of the 46 symphonies of Michael, of which I had 43, will now total 44 with the purchase of this disc.  Just two to go!!!  (One's unrecorded, but sadly, the other is lost, so I guess I won't be completing things any time soon.)

See?  I hadn't even known this thing had been recorded in its proper form, 3-mvt. symphony within a serenade, until Gurn sent me scurrying after Papa Joe's trumpet con.  See what the forum can do for you? 

 

[Gurn Blanston]

Okay, here's a perfect example of one of the greatest things I'm discovering about this whole Forum thing.  Something piques my interest, I start following threads to learn things, and suddenly I come across something I hadn't known existed.

Gurn started in on the trumpet concerto, and I had some (apparently faulty) memories to share, and then I went off in pursuit of other things (trying to track down that Amadeus CD he mentioned - no luck yet), and suddenly I encountered this:


[asin]B000J10JUQ[/asin] 


Now if you link to it, so as to get the thumbnail of the back paper with the track listings, you'll notice a Michael Haydn serenade with sections shown as 'Concerto for Bassoon' and 'Concerto for Trumpet.'  (That's in addition to a stand-alone concerto for trumpet earlier on the disc.)  That serenade, my friends, is catalogue MH 133, and the first three movements are a Symphony - one of only three of his that I don't have.  I do own the one-movement Bassoon part, and the two-movement Trumpet concerto, but not the rest.  And so my collection of the 46 symphonies of Michael, of which I had 43, will now total 44 with the purchase of this disc.  Just two to go!!!  (One's unrecorded, but sadly, the other is lost, so I guess I won't be completing things any time soon.)

See?  I hadn't even known this thing had been recorded in its proper form, 3-mvt. symphony within a serenade, until Gurn sent me scurrying after Papa Joe's trumpet con.  See what the forum can do for you? 

 

Conrad,
That's great! You're right in the bigger sense too; that sort of thing happens to me all the time. I go looking for one thing and find quite another which turns out to be something I really want!

Thanks for the info about the concerto too. I pondered that for quite some time, but I never ran across that info that you posted. I was thinking something more like a little trumpet (there are some weird ones out there!).

I never found that Amadeus CD for sale, although I did manage to hear the entire thing on YouTube, no video of the actual playing though, just a picture of a keyed trumpet and the album. Sounded very good, a highly polished performance.