Haydn's Haus

[Florestan]

IIRC, you are one who likes singing.... 

Yesss...

[Gurn Blanston]

It's curious, both the orchestral and the choral version have a version clearly superior to the remaining. Laurence Equilbey and her gang are excellent, but maybe excessively idiosyncratic compared to Harnoncourt.

Yes, there is little doubt in MY mind; if I was buying them all over again, it would be Savall and Harnoncourt, the Kuijken 4tet and Brautigam.  If I had to fall back one level though, Brüggen & Accentus, Mosaiques and Oort would work very well for me too... I'm not sure about idiosyncratic. You are probably correct, I take it as individual expression since it doesn't carry the negative context so much. You know, dating to back when it was a new piece of music, the parts have been found in churches of all Christian denominations in every country in Europe, so it was truly Christian Universal in that sense. So in terms of authenticity, probably a lot of accents can be placed there!   

[Wakefield]

Singing.

No, seriously, singing does make a difference. It entirely depends on your taste; either you like singing a lot or not so much. The underlying orchestral work is unchanged. In some cases the addition of a libretto is a negative effect on the music. In this case it does not. I am torn, I have always preferred instrumental music. However, this choral version is awfully good. IIRC, you are one who likes singing.... 

Well, if all must be said, the spoken words added to Savall's recording can be quite irritating.

[Florestan]

Well, then I'll rip the whole thing to mp3, remove the spoken parts and make a cd without. 

[Gurn Blanston]

The Savall does include spoken text in between the orchestral movements.  I find this distracting and wish it were not there.  If I had to choose between the orchestral version and the choral version I'd probably say the choral since if I wanted an instrumental version I prefer the string quartet above the orchestral.  But the version I like least is the way Savall does it, with the spoken sections.  The sound of his orchestra is arguably the best, however, which means the spoken sections are even more of an unfortunate aspect (imo).

Back when I had first gotten the disk, I ripped it to FLAC and eliminated those tracks, so I had quite forgotten they were there. IIRC, they are also in the score, they are the Latin words that actually ARE the Seven Last Words. Haydn wrote them right into the text. So they are hardly inappropriate, although they can be a distraction (I only listened to the disk itself one time).  Brüggen commissioned a modern composer to write a few bars intermezzo between each sonata, so both versions have their distractions.   

[Florestan]

IIRC, they are also in the score, they are the Latin words that actually ARE the Seven Last Words. Haydn wrote them right into the text.

Then Savall is as HIP as it gets. I can hardly wait to hear it...

[Gurn Blanston]

Then Savall is as HIP as it gets. I can hardly wait to hear it...

Yes, I double checked my memory against the booklet and that is exactly right. These words were spoken by a cantor as the procession moved from station to station within the darkened church. I am sure you are familiar with the little procession, heavy with incense, as they do the Good Friday Stations of the Cross. This music was an accompaniment to that procession. So absolutely, when used in that way, or recreating that aspect, they couldn't be more realistic than that!   

[Opus106]

Just drive-by linking: http://www.medici.tv/#!/jordi-savall-haydn

Performed, a bit dramatically, if I may add, at the location of the work's première, the church of Santa Cueva in Cadiz, Spain.

[Gurn Blanston]

Just drive-by linking: http://www.medici.tv/#!/jordi-savall-haydn

Performed, a bit dramatically, if I may add, at the location of the work's première, the church of Santa Cueva in Cadiz, Spain.

Thanks for that, Navneeth. I am likely to get that DVD. Nice to see a bit of it up front. I think the drama is a good thing, although YMMV.

[mszczuj]

Well, then I'll rip the whole thing to mp3, remove the spoken parts and make a cd without. 

Rip it just to the wave files, there is no reason to lose the sound quality.

[Wakefield]

Thanks for that, Navneeth. I am likely to get that DVD. Nice to see a bit of it up front. I think the drama is a good thing, although YMMV.

... although musically it doesn't add anything at all to the CD. The only additional value is to see the performers actually performing because even the Church itself it's a bit disappointing. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Another video I saw while checking out the Savall is "Celebrating Haydn" narrated by Peter Ustinov

The famous actor and music-lover leads us through the life and works of the great artist, Joseph Haydn. In film sequences, concert recordings and pictures, you will have the pleasure to make the acquaintance of this extraordinary man ! It is thanks to this musician that we have brilliant musical performances like Die Schöpfung.

This one also looks very interesting.

Yes, I have that on VHS, taped from the TV about 10 years ago. I thought it was very interesting and informative for a TV show.

[Karl Henning]

I could easily make Haydn a day-after-Thanksgiving listening tradition!

[Gurn Blanston]

... although musically it doesn't add anything at all to the CD. The only additional value is to see the performers actually performing because even the Church itself it's a bit disappointing. 

True enough. I've always enjoyed having a visual to go along with though. It's like watching a concert DVD; I may have the same soundtrack on CD, but I always enjoy the DVD more. 

[Gurn Blanston]

I could easily make Haydn a day-after-Thanksgiving listening tradition!

I already did! 

[Karl Henning]

Yes, O Pathfinder! : )

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, O Pathfinder! : )

  Of course, just waking up in the morning is a good reason to listen to some Haydn.... 

My 5 Robbins-Landon books just arrived, I need to go see how well they shipped. And maybe read a couple. I'll be back!   

[Gurn Blanston]

I am very envious of your acquisition of those books!      I hope to find them through my library.

Congratulations and I know you will truly appreciate them and get many years of enjoyment from them.  And of course share the knowledge with the humble Haus-volk.

Thanks, San. It took several years of patient searching to find a set I could afford. Unlike you big city folk down in San Antonio, we backwoods Texans don't have a library of note. I also hope you get access to a set. I really enjoyed and learned a lot from the 1 volume I already had.

[Karl Henning]

Dudes, how did da Haus drift to p. 2?! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! : )

Actually via a Prokofiev discussion, I fetched in a Святослав Теофилович (Svyatoslav Teofilovich Richter) recital disc from October 1961, a Vanguard Classic release which lists the E^b sonata (Hob.XVI/49) as Opus 66.

Do we have a rational list of the piano sonatas with their (at times conflicting?) designations?

[Gurn Blanston]

Dudes, how did da Haus drift to p. 2?! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! : )

Actually via a Prokofiev discussion, I fetched in a Святослав Теофилович (Svyatoslav Teofilovich Richter) recital disc from October 1961, a Vanguard Classic release which lists the E^b sonata (Hob.XVI/49) as Opus 66.

Do we have a rational list of the piano sonatas with their (at times conflicting?) designations?

The Opus numbers have drifted into irrelevance, much like Schubert's. That might be an Artaria number since he was dealing with them at around that time, but could be the British publisher (Longman & Broderip) or even the French. It seems I have posted a list of Hob 16 numbers here along with their correlative Landon numbers (more chronological). I'll check tonight, and if not, then I will. Meanwhile, the Wiki entry on the keyboard sonatas lists the Landon/Hoboken concordance.