Haydn's Haus

[Old Listener]

Almost hard to imagine all the stuff going on in 1784. I barely scratched the surface and still have a modest novella!   You might find some of it interesting, I did!

Take that, CPE Bach!

I enjoy each of your articles on Haydn's life.  They add a sense of the real person who worked for decades applying his talent to satisfy his employer and his own creative sense.

[Gurn Blanston]

I enjoy each of your articles on Haydn's life.  They add a sense of the real person who worked for decades applying his talent to satisfy his employer and his own creative sense.

Very kind of you to say. I'm delighted you enjoy it as I do; to see the real person behind all that great music! 

[Gurn Blanston]

First listen to symphony no.89 today. It's giving me some recollections of Beethoven for some reason - although of course, it would be more accurate to say that Beethoven gave me some occasional recollections of Haydn.

When Beethoven said "I learned nothing from Haydn", I suspect he 'doth protest too much". Maybe he didn't even realize how much he learned! 

[Karl Henning]

Beethoven was a brat.  A fine composer, no argument;  but a brat.

[Gurn Blanston]

Beethoven was a brat.  A fine composer, no argument;  but a brat.

I can see him, Ries and Czerny standing on the street corner wearing leathers, smoking cigarettes and kicking road apples under the feet of unsuspecting aristocrats...         Of course, the young Marlon Brando would be Beethoven, James Dean would be Ries... 

[Gurn Blanston]

I am not sure at what stage in Beethoven's career that quote was made but I suspect during his mature to late period.  If my guess is accurate, then it is understandable how he could say that, i.e. feeling that he had traveled a long distance from his  years under Haydn's tutelage, Haydn's influence was rather small.  From all accounts I've read, Haydn was not very engaged in teaching Beethoven.

No, actually it was rather early times, IIRC, while Haydn was still alive. In later years he revered Haydn, when he no longer feared competition from him. In fact, that situation was resolved around 1805 when it became painfully apparent that Haydn debilities precluded any further chance of him composing again. It was all good then.

As for teaching, as with everything, it is a far more complicated thing than just engagement. I am planning an essay on just that one topic when the time comes, too long to go into here (especially since I have to go to work now! ).

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for the info.  I had second thoughts about that post which is why i removed it.

Yeah, I pulled the trigger too quick, since I was on the spot. So it goes.

[Pat B]

Beethoven was a brat.  A fine composer, no argument;  but a brat.

Maybe not as much as it would seem from one comment taken out of context.

[Karl Henning]

Well, his musical reputation is completely intact, in any event, and deservedly so.

[Karl Henning]

Even as a brat, he was never a patch on Boulez 

[Jo498]

It seems that Beethoven was "technically" right because the actual lessons with Haydn were not successful (because Haydn was to busy). But the reason he proclaimed loudly that he had never learned *anything* from Haydn was probably that he wanted to appear as youthful irascible genius (which he actually was anyway). Of course, he had learned a lot from Haydn's COMPOSITIONS, if not from doing counterpoint exercises with the old man.

[Gurn Blanston]

It seems that Beethoven was "technically" right because the actual lessons with Haydn were not successful (because Haydn was to busy). But the reason he proclaimed loudly that he had never learned *anything* from Haydn was probably that he wanted to appear as youthful irascible genius (which he actually was anyway). Of course, he had learned a lot from Haydn's COMPOSITIONS, if not from doing counterpoint exercises with the old man.

I completely agree with this. You will find though, in virtually any Beethoven-oriented biography dating back to the mid 19th century and ever since, that authors have willfully misinterpreted this statement and used it prima facie to demonstrate that Haydn was no match for our young revolutionary genius.   

[Karl Henning]

Brats 

[Gurn Blanston]

Maybe not as much as it would seem from one comment taken out of context.

One of a host, as you will see.

It is indisputable that Beethoven was a brat, to put it nicely. It is no big deal, no one (still living) holds it against him, certainly not me. I rather admire him for it.

[Karl Henning]

I wouldn't have LvB any other way;  a most colorful figure in music history.

The brat 

[Karl Henning]

Great typo in the very first page (in inglese) of the liner notes to the DRD complete symphonies box:

Nearly four years separate the first symphony written by the 25-year-old Haydn as kapellmeister to Count Morzin in the Czech provinces from his last contribution to the genre, which had its first performance in 1795 in a wildly-acclaimed concert given in the metropolis of London.

[Karl Henning]

His smoke could be descried from as far away as Sevastopol ....

[Sergeant Rock]

Only four years, and 100+ symphonies later?  Busy man ...

The dude was almost as productive as Havergal Brian.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm still in a funk over the poor recording history of the 76-81 symphonies. But I didn't let that deter me this week, when I took a look at the latter three. Hard to realize he isn't writing for Eszterháza any more. Anyway, have a look if you'd like.

For the world beyond

Thanks,

[Madiel]

Yes, I seem to remember working out that, even with modern instruments, this was a natural grouping of symphonies (or 2 natural groupings) that was very difficult to find on disc.