Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 1019929 times)

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11400 on: October 19, 2017, 08:26:22 AM »
Other than listening to it repeatedly until the themes are ingrained? I don't know. Knowing it's in C major doesn't help since it's just one of 19 that Haydn composed in that key.

Sarge

Yes, it doesn't help a lot of people, but it helps me. That was what I found odd. It's even worse in D major. #42 was one of a great many in D, yet knowing it was in D helps me remember it. Hell, I can't explain it, but it is one of the few lasting memories I have about works is what key they were in. :-\

8)
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11401 on: October 19, 2017, 08:39:51 AM »
There are several groups or clusters. Some I do not remember at all, of others I have a fairly clear "sound picture" in my mind, i.e. I could often hum or whistle important themes or at least I would immediately or quickly recognize beginnings and other passages if they were played to me.
Of another group I have a far less clear, vague remembrance but will still recall certain features, like a melody or some special effect from a certain movement. E.g. I could not hum any theme from symphony #51 and I do not think I would recognize the beginning but I do know that it is the one with the crazy (very high and low pitch) horn solos, so this is an identifier.
Then one spins a web (with gaps, admittedly), #52 is the c minor, cannot hum, but will very probably recognize at least first and last movement, 50 is another in C major (I think with a flute solo in the slow movement, but I might be wrong, I write all this without looking up anything). 49 is "La passione", one I know fairly well (not so hummable, but I would recognize all movements), 48 is the "Maria Theresia", very famous and quite recognizable etc. 47 is the one with the "al rovescio" menuet, 46 is the only one in B major with the menuet returning in the finale, 45 is of course "Farewell" and so on. (Admittedly I picked a comparably well known bunch here, I could not do it with the 20s, there would be more gaps than pieces I remember features of.)

It can be easier with the string quartets because of their groupings into six, but it can also be harder because they have less obviously special features, like horn or flute solos etc.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11402 on: October 19, 2017, 08:42:06 AM »
Other than listening to it repeatedly until the themes are ingrained? I don't know. Knowing it's in C major doesn't help since it's just one of 19 that Haydn composed in that key.

Sarge
Yes, it doesn't help a lot of people, but it helps me. That was what I found odd. It's even worse in D major. #42 was one of a great many in D, yet knowing it was in D helps me remember it. Hell, I can't explain it, but it is one of the few lasting memories I have about works is what key they were in. :-\

 8)

It's more abstract as a mnemonic, but it is an alternate mnemonic.
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Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11403 on: October 19, 2017, 11:43:09 AM »
I used to remember pieces by association with the album cover. Now that they come in mega-boxes there is no hope. Not much use referring to "the one on disc 23."  :(

Offline amw

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11404 on: October 19, 2017, 12:03:10 PM »
Honestly even with very well known symphonies like the Londons I often forget which number is which or mix up the slow movements or sometimes an entire symphony is a blank spot..... and the same is true with some of the quartets, eg I know one of the Op. 33 set is in B-flat major but I don't remember anything about it, or my brain attaches the first movement of Op. 54 no. 2 to the finale of Op. 64 no. 1, or whatever. I guess it's just that the ones I do remember I remember... well??

Offline Jo498

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11405 on: October 19, 2017, 12:52:09 PM »
op.33#4 is the one in B flat major, it is probably the least well known of the set. I don't remember anything particular about it either...
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Madiel

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11406 on: October 19, 2017, 02:16:24 PM »
Other than listening to it repeatedly until the themes are ingrained? I don't know. Knowing it's in C major doesn't help since it's just one of 19 that Haydn composed in that key.

Sarge

19 symphonies is still a much smaller group to sort through than 106.

I dunno. I'm still working through my first ever listens to the first 77 so there's nothing firm in there. The only ones I have a really decent sense of are the London symphonies because I've owned them for years. With a hazier addition of nos. 82-92 because I've owned them for about 3 years. Key does help a bit, but then cross-checked with period or number. For instance I'm aware in my head of a C major London and an E flat major London that isn't the Drum Roll...
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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11407 on: October 19, 2017, 02:27:29 PM »
The only Haydn Symphony I heard in concert was "The Flatulent." Which number is that, and Gurn, what key is it in?

Online Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11408 on: October 19, 2017, 02:41:55 PM »
The only Haydn Symphony I heard in concert was "The Flatulent." Which number is that, and Gurn, what key is it in?

93, D major ...see? nicknames are useful  ;D

Sarge
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Mahler, you ought to go see it.
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Offline amw

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11409 on: October 19, 2017, 02:56:35 PM »
op.33#4 is the one in B flat major, it is probably the least well known of the set. I don't remember anything particular about it either...
Listened to it: has an arresting opening on a third inversion dominant 7th chord, unlike any other Haydn quartet I've heard, so that may help to fix it in my memory. Very good quartet obviously, with a real sense of sounding revolutionary and like nothing that'd been done before (which is true of all the Op. 33s), but have to say the musical material is simply not as memorable to me as e.g. op. 33/3.

With Symphony No. 93 I mostly remember the finale, its butter-wouldn't-melt-in-mouth main theme, and its idiosyncratic excursion to D-flat major at one point with a solo cello, but I guess "The One That Goes Into D-flat Major At One Point" isn't a very good nickname
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 02:58:35 PM by amw »

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11410 on: October 19, 2017, 03:00:17 PM »
93, D major ...see? nicknames are useful  ;D

Yes, I had it on an Antal Dorati LP!

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11411 on: October 19, 2017, 03:02:12 PM »
With Symphony No. 93 I mostly remember the finale, its butter-wouldn't-melt-in-mouth main theme, and its idiosyncratic excursion to D-flat major at one point with a solo cello, but I guess "The One That Goes Into D-flat Major At One Point" isn't a very good nickname

Are you telling me, you're sitting in the concert hall, and you say to yourself, "interesting that it has gone into D-flat major"?

Online Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11412 on: October 19, 2017, 03:02:37 PM »
The only Haydn Symphony I heard in concert was "The Flatulent."

I've heard a few more Haydn symphonies, not many though, considering the fact that I've been attending concerts for 50 years. I suppose that is proof Papa isn't popular with un-HIP orchestras and their audiences. A pity.

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Sarge

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11413 on: October 19, 2017, 03:05:11 PM »
93 is a good one to hear live. If the bassoonist doesn't turn red in the face, he's not doing it right.  :)

I think it was the Mostly Mozart Festival Orchestra. More than 30 years ago. :(

Offline amw

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11414 on: October 19, 2017, 03:10:35 PM »
Are you telling me, you're sitting in the concert hall, and you say to yourself, "interesting that it has gone into D-flat major"?
well yeah? the first time I heard no. 93 was in a live concert and among many moments that stood out was one where the orchestra was hammering away at unison Cs in the finale and then stopped except for one, very tentative, solo cello, and I thought "damn, this is a special moment" and then the orchestra came back in on Db fortissimo and started with the main theme again...

(also oops I checked a score just now and it actually doesn't go into Db major, that hammering is on C# not C and thus the theme actually comes back in the tonic just like every other symphony. I guess that is the danger of going to hear a period instrument group playing at A=426 or whatever when you have absolute pitch :( )

Online Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11415 on: October 19, 2017, 03:12:26 PM »
93 is a good one to hear live. If the bassoonist doesn't turn red in the face, he's not doing it right.  :)

Szell's bassoonist probably had a stroke after hitting that note. Best fart on record  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Parsifal

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11416 on: October 19, 2017, 03:19:37 PM »
well yeah? the first time I heard no. 93 was in a live concert and among many moments that stood out was one where the orchestra was hammering away at unison Cs in the finale and then stopped except for one, very tentative, solo cello, and I thought "damn, this is a special moment" and then the orchestra came back in on Db fortissimo and started with the main theme again...

(also oops I checked a score just now and it actually doesn't go into Db major, that hammering is on C# not C and thus the theme actually comes back in the tonic just like every other symphony. I guess that is the danger of going to hear a period instrument group playing at A=426 or whatever when you have absolute pitch :( )

Absolute pitch, fair enough. But the newly minted nickname "The One That Goes into D-flat at One Point" is canceled. :(

Anyway, I have to listen to that one.

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11417 on: October 19, 2017, 03:21:02 PM »
Szell's bassoonist probably had a stroke after hitting that note. Best fart on record  8)

Sarge

Maybe I'll listen to my Harnoncourt recording. He probably did research on 18th century culinary history to inform the performance of the faux fart.  :)

Online Sergeant Rock

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11418 on: October 19, 2017, 03:23:44 PM »
Maybe I'll listen to my Harnoncourt recording. He probably did research on 18th century culinary history to inform the performance of the faux fart.  :)

 ;D :D ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline amw

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #11419 on: October 19, 2017, 03:29:46 PM »
Absolute pitch, fair enough. But the newly minted nickname "The One That Goes into D-flat at One Point" is canceled. :(

Anyway, I have to listen to that one.
I did a quick search and the concert I was at is actually on youtube!
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/S26buIrMJoo" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/S26buIrMJoo</a>

Living in the UK had its perks I guess....