Haydn's Haus

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 06, 2007, 04:15:04 PM

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Jo498

Mozart had a rather different style. He would more often go for contrapuntally involved passages in developments rather than for "motivic development". In this respect Beethoven seems much closer to Haydn. (It's a slightly more involved theme but the way the first mvmt of the "fifth" quartet 76#2 is obsessively dominated by that main motive seems close to Beethoven's 5th symphony, and of course Haydn already had a theme rhythmically somewhat similar to Beethoven's in op.50#4 f# minor)

The few movements where Mozart seems Haydnesque are in the chamber music, I'd say. E.g. the main theme of the first movement of his D major quintet K 593 seems to take the "bottom half" of Haydn's Lark quartet (i.e. without the lark) which is rather minimalist for Mozart. (But then the cooler thing here is probably the entanglement of introduction and main part, similarly to Haydn's (later) symphony 103.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Brian

Looks like we will soon be able to compare Op. 76 recordings from LHQ and Chiaroscuro...

Madiel

For those that swing that way.
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Madiel

#12503
I think I've found the op.55 quartets that I want (Panocha). But having trouble with an op.54 to go with it.

Any suggestions of ones to try?

EDIT: I'm thinking the Ysaye has potential.
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Daverz

Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 03:50:22 AM
I think I've found the op.55 quartets that I want (Panocha). But having trouble with an op.54 to go with it.

Any suggestions of ones to try?

EDIT: I'm thinking the Ysaye has potential.

The Endellion quartet did a one-off of Op. 54.  It then got coupled with Op. 74 in the reissue.

https://www.amazon.com/Franz-Josef-Haydn-String-Quartets/dp/B00000DP3R
https://www.amazon.com/String-Quartets-Joseph-Haydn/dp/B00000632D

The Juilliard also did a one-off of Op. 54.  It's been a while since I listened to it, but I recall the sound as a bit tinny.  Too bad I don't have a bass control.  Except for downloads or LP, it's only available in their Epic box:

https://www.amazon.com/Juilliard-String-Quartet-Complete-Recordings/dp/B0776K3MPJ
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8422664--haydn-three-quartets-op-54-remastered

Jo498

#12505
The Juilliard is my favorite, so since I got the Epic box a month or two ago (I used to have a grey LP transfer from the internet years ago), I am not really looking for more. The Endellion is quite good but not sticking out as extraordinary (if Madiel wasn't living with the Antipodes, I'll let him have my copy for postage). I have read very good things about the Ysaye but not heard it (and probably won't). I also find op.54/55 is among the better Amadeus Q Haydn but probably not enough to justify getting one of their Haydn boxes. op.54/1 is somewhat frequently found on anthologies (e.g. Emerson, Schuppanzigh) but this does not help here.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Madiel

Thanks folks.

The Juillliard is indeed rather tinny sounding, and I don't love the effect in fast music. And yes, it also appears that on CD (my preferred format) it's only available if you get that larger box.

The Endellion sounds a bit more in my wheelhouse, I think I might line it up against the Ysaye and see which I prefer.

The Amadeus... I don't know, there's something about the intonation that feels a trifle off to me. I'm not really warming to the tone at any rate.

I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Brass Hole

#12507
Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 01:13:51 PM
Thanks folks.

The Juillliard is indeed rather tinny sounding, and I don't love the effect in fast music. And yes, it also appears that on CD (my preferred format) it's only available if you get that larger box.

The Endellion sounds a bit more in my wheelhouse, I think I might line it up against the Ysaye and see which I prefer.

The Amadeus... I don't know, there's something about the intonation that feels a trifle off to me. I'm not really warming to the tone at any rate.

If not HIP, The Lindsays or Kodaly should do in Op 54/55.

Daverz

#12508
Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 01:13:51 PM
Thanks folks.

The Juillliard is indeed rather tinny sounding, and I don't love the effect in fast music. And yes, it also appears that on CD (my preferred format) it's only available if you get that larger box.

The Endellion sounds a bit more in my wheelhouse, I think I might line it up against the Ysaye and see which I prefer.

The Amadeus... I don't know, there's something about the intonation that feels a trifle off to me. I'm not really warming to the tone at any rate.

Perhaps the Endellion were a bigger deal back when there was much less choice on CD.  There's also the Auryn, which is vol. 8 in their series.  It's still on my notional to-listen pile.  Unfortunately, no cheap used copies like the Endellion.

Madiel

#12509
The Kodaly are... nice, but in some movements that's all they are, with no energy to the music. I'm very fond of their op.76 but some reviews suggest op.54 isn't their best.

First impression of the Lindsays playing is fine, but the acoustic is somewhat recessed. I saw a comment about this last night and I have to agree. It sounds very much like they're in a hall, which of course makes sense for a concert but for home listening it's not my preference.

The Auryn are a little smoother, borderline whether they're too much so, but the bigger taste issue for me is it's a very echoing acoustic.

Honours are currently split between Endellion and Ysaye rather closely on preview samples. The Endellion sound better to me in op.54/1, the Ysaye sound better in certain movements in nos 2 and 3, but it's fairly marginal. It might come down to price/availability.
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Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
The Kodaly are... nice, but in some movements that's all they are, with no energy to the music. I'm very fond of their op.76 but some reviews suggest op.54 isn't their best.t's fairly marginal. It might come down to price/availability.

Fuck some reviews... It's all up to your and only taste!
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on December 22, 2020, 04:08:46 PM
Fuck some reviews... It's all up to your and only taste!

Unlike some other people here, I can both look at reviews AND make my own assessments.

Honestly, I don't know why people treat reviewers as either gods or monsters. They're neither. The notion that they have nothing of value to say and expertise doesn't exist is just as wrong as the notion that reviews are determinative.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 04:13:35 PM
I don't know why people treat reviewers as either gods or monsters. They're neither.

Agreed,
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

#12513
Quote from: Florestan on December 22, 2020, 04:15:02 PM
Agreed,

Right. So let me combine my own assessment of Kodaly op.54 from listening to it this morning with the fact that other people who (like me) enjoy the Kodaly op.76 also (like me on initial hearing) don't enjoy the Kodaly op.54 so much.

EDIT: It's not as if I'm beholden to reviews. If you look for reviews of Haydn op.54 you're liable to keep finding reviews about the London Haydn Quartet- many of them enthusiastic. But (like Classics Today as it happens) I find their sound horrible.
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Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 04:19:37 PM
Right. So let me combine my own assessment of Kodaly op.54 from listening to it this morning with the fact that other people who (like me) enjoy the Kodaly op.76 also (like me on initial hearing) don't enjoy the Kodaly op.54 so much.

I very much enjoy the Kodalyi's.

:D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

staxomega

#12515
Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
The Kodaly are... nice, but in some movements that's all they are, with no energy to the music. I'm very fond of their op.76 but some reviews suggest op.54 isn't their best.

First impression of the Lindsays playing is fine, but the acoustic is somewhat recessed. I saw a comment about this last night and I have to agree. It sounds very much like they're in a hall, which of course makes sense for a concert but for home listening it's not my preference.

The Auryn are a little smoother, borderline whether they're too much so, but the bigger taste issue for me is it's a very echoing acoustic.

Honours are currently split between Endellion and Ysaye rather closely on preview samples. The Endellion sound better to me in op.54/1, the Ysaye sound better in certain movements in nos 2 and 3, but it's fairly marginal. It might come down to price/availability.

Do you hear any intonation issues with The Lindsays? Going from memory (not the most reliable) I thought that's why I haven't listened to their Haydn in many years aside from Seven Last Words of Christ as their performance of that is unlike anyone else.

I don't hear any echoing acoustic on Auryn other than the recording not being completely dry, there is the occasional resonance from the cello when he is playing with more vigor. Otherwise sounds like well balanced engineering to me, coming from someone that strongly dislikes resonant acoustics but will put up with it if the performances are great.

I've been listening to Schneider Quartet's incomplete cycle these last couple of weeks, I'll have to formulate my thoughts on this. So far quite enjoyable.

Madiel

Quote from: hvbias on December 22, 2020, 05:02:07 PM
Do you hear any intonation issues with The Lindsays? Going from memory (not the most reliable) I thought that's why I haven't listened to their Haydn in many years aside from Seven Last Words for Christ as their performance of that is unlike anyone else.

I don't hear any echoing acoustic on Auryn other than the recording not being completely dry, there is the occasional resonance from the cello when he is playing with more vigor. Otherwise sounds like well balanced engineering to me, coming from someone that strongly dislikes resonant acoustics but will put up with it if the performances are great.

I've been listening to Schneider Quartet's incomplete cycle these last couple of weeks, I'll have to formulate my thoughts on this. So far quite enjoyable.

I didn't listen to a huge amount of the Lindsays, I think they have a somewhat 'rough' style that would have let me accept a bit of intonation anyway. I don't recall hearing anything in that regard that bothered me, but I'm aware of some people commenting on it.

Re the Auryn: it might well depend on what equipment different people are listening on. But to me, there were samples where it felt too resonant for my tastes and it was blurring things just a little.
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JBS

Quote from: Madiel on December 22, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
The Kodaly are... nice, but in some movements that's all they are, with no energy to the music. I'm very fond of their op.76 but some reviews suggest op.54 isn't their best.

First impression of the Lindsays playing is fine, but the acoustic is somewhat recessed. I saw a comment about this last night and I have to agree. It sounds very much like they're in a hall, which of course makes sense for a concert but for home listening it's not my preference.

The Auryn are a little smoother, borderline whether they're too much so, but the bigger taste issue for me is it's a very echoing acoustic.

Honours are currently split between Endellion and Ysaye rather closely on preview samples. The Endellion sound better to me in op.54/1, the Ysaye sound better in certain movements in nos 2 and 3, but it's fairly marginal. It might come down to price/availability.

In talking about the Lindsays, bear in mind that there is a 4 CD set from them of live Haydn recordings.


I overall like it but there is some rough intonation in places.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Daverz

Listening to the Auryn's Op. 54 with Sennheiser HD-650 headphones, the resonance does not seem excessive to me.

Madiel

Quote from: Daverz on December 22, 2020, 07:50:49 PM
Listening to the Auryn's Op. 54 with Sennheiser HD-650 headphones, the resonance does not seem excessive to me.

Then continue to enjoy your listening.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!