Haydn's Haus

[Jo498]

Good job. You included Harnoncourt/CMW with 31, 59, 73 (that is IMO the most desirable of their single issues) but not 30, 53, 69 (that is also quite good, I just think these  symphonies are not as good as the ones on the other disc) but I think they are both simiilarly (un)available. There was also a re-shuffled re-issue with 30, 45, 73...

I was quite excited when that Scherchen box came out years ago on DG Original masters (Universal has owned all or most of the Westminster for  some time, I believe) but I think it is really a mixed bag, maybe even more than was to be expected from Scherchen The sound rather sucks on some of them and I rarely listen to the "London" symphonies from this set (#100, a special favorite of Scherchen's but not mine, is better in his stereo recording that was on the Great conductors of the century volume). BUT: 45, 88 are quite extraordinary if very excentric and 49 and 92 at least very good and might be worth seeking out.

As I probably already wrote somewhere, I don't like all of Fey's Haydn I have heard but his 53+54 and 48+56 are among the best of his series and very good. Goodman is not my absolute favorite (my overall fav in most of them is Fischer) in 70-72, 73-75, 76-78 but more than a stopgap. A good single 70 is with Rattle, whereas Fey is highly irritating especially in the finale (the 75 might be a reason to get this disc nevertheless)

[Brian]

Thanks, I added that Harnoncourt disc that I did not know about. Not sure why his Concertgebouw Haydn has been conveniently reissued but not the CMW stuff. I assume that they are preparing a gigantic All Harnoncourt box (or maybe orchestral and vocal/operatic separately). Much like we assume that Decca is preparing an All Dorati box.

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As promised last page, I spent a while last week listening to two discs of Dennis Russell Davies' cycle, with three more discs to come this week. Since I own it, I might as well have better knowledge of it! Contrary to my memory, the slow movements were very lovely indeed, lovingly expressed and warm, a huge improvement over Hogwood or, frankly, Antonini. The outer movements of 80 were a little bit stiff, as if he was uncomfortable with the weird syncopated rhythms and jokes, but on the other hand 53 was marvelous.

My cat did not appreciate the sudden outbursts of applause.

On Friday we saw a live performance of 44 "Trauer-sinfonie" with the Dallas Symphony and Juanjo Mena. Reduced-size orchestra, closer to those of Haydn's time, and overall a very good, elegant performance, with an especially wonderful slow movement. The reverb of a huge concert hall does not help in the very fast passages, like the scurrying violins in the first movement, which get a little bit blurry. But the rest was wonderful, and it was intriguing to see visually the odd forces Haydn uses: no flutes!

That was the first time the Dallas Symphony had ever played 44.

I don't need another symphony cycle, right? owning the Decca HIP set and the DRD set, plus various partials (Orpheus, Bernstein, Weil, Marriner). But I have started listening to YouTube sample movements from Marzendorfer, and gosh is he good. Like Bernstein, he has a charging forward way with outer movements, but is slightly slow in minuets. Like Bernstein, he seems very alive to Haydn's wit, phrasing, and endless detail. But unlike Bernstein, he's got a chamber orchestra. Maybe a more apt comparison would be a Viennese Marriner. I might need to hear this in full. Any Marzendorfer enthusiasts here? Or detractors? From a forum search, it looks like only a few people (like J Winter and Daverz) have heard it.

[Jo498]

Märzendorfer was utterly unavailable for decades, except on (rare?) used LPs (it was also quite unknown, as I said above, I had not even heard about its existence until the internet). Then, later one might be able to get some semi-private transfers of them semi-legally on the internet. I probably had a bunch of them some time ago. When the whole thing was finally re-issued on CD, I was too saturated with Haydn to bother. It certainly had its fans all the time (as some other 1960s-70s Haydn LPs like Goberman, Jones, Blum).

[Spotted Horses]

Thanks, I added that Harnoncourt disc that I did not know about. Not sure why his Concertgebouw Haydn has been conveniently reissued but not the CMW stuff.

You are misinformed about that



I have this box, which appears to be nla, although it can be had as a lossless download from presto.

Thanks for the spreadsheet! You didn't include Thomas Fey, which would have been the best Haydn cycle of them all if he hadn't fallen down the stairs, or whatever, and sustained irreversible brain damage. I've lost track of which symphonies he covered, although I have a bunch of his discs. I understand Heidelberg has plans to finish the cycle with their new music director, but I can't find any enthusiasm within myself to seek it out.

[Jo498]

I think Brian made the spreadsheet with what he already had or was specially interested in...
IIRC there are also two single discs with the Concentus musicus Haydn in the "elatus" series but they might be recombinations of the originals and in turn oop.
While Harnoncourt's "Paris" set is probably the most distinctive of his Haydn (and has the best sound), the 4 earlier discs (I have not heard the Concertante + concerto) with the Concentus are for me the most easily recommendable because they are not as mannered as some of the Paris and they cover some symphonies not nearly as well represented in the discocraphy. The London set is pretty good but not that special, modern instruments, but some mannerisms and there is a lot of competition.

The Heidelberg orchestra has issued two volumes or so with a new conductor or their concert master. There must be around 15 or more volumes with Fey and two or three later ones, so by now more than half of the symphonies.

[Florestan]

There are 23 volumes of Fey/Heidelberg, covering 63 symphonies.

[Brian]

I excluded Fey because the cycle is technically ongoing, even if with newcomer Johannes Klumpp and even an Orpheus-style conductorless disc. I sampled a bit of Klumpp's newest and it sounded fairly stylistically similar, a good continuation.

Fey overall would be my favorite cycle but occasionally he really misses (his 92 is unforgivable to me).

The spreadsheet was meant to capture substantial (20ish symphonies or more) partial cycles that are no longer eligible for completion, and that pretty much everybody likes (e.g. no Hogwood). Added Harnoncourt 105 to the sheet.

[Spotted Horses]

There are 23 volumes of Fey/Heidelberg, covering 63 symphonies.

I hadn't realized there were so many. I only have a half-dozen or so. The prospect of collecting a half-complete set from full price releases and downloads isn't too attractive to me. Maybe when Heidelberg finishes the cycle they will box it up.

[Brian]

I hadn't realized there were so many. I only have a half-dozen or so. The prospect of collecting a half-complete set from full price releases and downloads isn't too attractive to me. Maybe when Heidelberg finishes the cycle they will box it up.

Hoping/assuming so - they already did box up the Londons I think?

[j winter]

They've boxed the Londons and the Paris...

[Jo498]

Fey's seem to be among the most polarizing recordings ever. I can understand this because I basically stopped collecting them and got rid of two volumes (of "London" 94/104, 93/96/97) but kept 9. They are often abrasive, mannered etc. and sometimes this is invigorating, sometimes rather annoying. They were usually findable quite cheap around here, either used or in sales. The original issues had the Paris spread over three discs but IIRC these are all very good: 82/88/95, 83-85, 69/86/87.

[j winter]

I enjoy Fey's recordings because they are distinctive with their combination of mostly modern instruments played with period style, brass and percussion; and as such I like to include them in the "mix" when I'm listening to Haydn symphonies.  I have to admit that I treat Haydn a bit differently than most composers, because there is so much of it.  Whereas with Beethoven or Brahms I will usually digest the symphonies one conductor at a time in sets, for me that's unmanageable with 107 symphonies.  So I tend to jump around a lot when I'm in the mood for Haydn, hopping from Dorati to Fey, Szell, Bruggen, Jochum, Pinnock, et al more or less at random.  I used to have a playlist that I carried on my iPod ages ago with Haydn 75-104, with a different conductor for each.  For me it keeps things fresh, and also highlights how many different approaches work well with this music. 

[Spotted Horses]

I enjoy Fey's recordings because they are distinctive with their combination of mostly modern instruments played with period style, brass and percussion; and as such I like to include them in the "mix" when I'm listening to Haydn symphonies.  I have to admit that I treat Haydn a bit differently than most composers, because there is so much of it.  Whereas with Beethoven or Brahms I will usually digest the symphonies one conductor at a time in sets, for me that's unmanageable with 107 symphonies.  So I tend to jump around a lot when I'm in the mood for Haydn, hopping from Dorati to Fey, Szell, Bruggen, Jochum, Pinnock, et al more or less at random.  I used to have a playlist that I carried on my iPod ages ago with Haydn 75-104, with a different conductor for each.  For me it keeps things fresh, and also highlights how many different approaches work well with this music.

That describes my experience as well. I find that the Norrington/Stuttgart Mozart is similar to Fey's Haydn. Very extroverted; not the be-all and end-all but bringing out a different aspect of the music than is typically heard.

[j winter]

That describes my experience as well. I find that the Norrington/Stuttgart Mozart is similar to Fey's Haydn. Very extroverted; not the be-all and end-all but bringing out a different aspect of the music than is typically heard.

I agree with that as well -- I picked this up a while back based on Sarge's recommendation, and have quite enjoyed it.  Definitely not something to have as your only set of Londons, but an invigorating alternate approach. 

[Spotted Horses]

I agree with that as well -- I picked this up a while back based on Sarge's recommendation, and have quite enjoyed it.  Definitely not something to have as your only set of Londons, but an invigorating alternate approach. 

I'm guessing you'd also enjoy this:

[Madiel]

I cannot agree that Hogwood is dull. I enjoy the box considerably.

I could not get into Goodman on account of the harpsichord.

[j winter]

I'm guessing you'd also enjoy this:

Duly noted, thanks!

[Spotted Horses]

Duly noted, thanks!

Expensive here, no?

[JBS]

It was re-issued last year
[Asin]B08YDLNKRN[/asin]

[j winter]

Much obliged!