Haydn's Haus

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 06, 2007, 04:15:04 PM

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quintett op.57

I've discovered a masterpiece today : Haydn's quartet op.54 n°3.

Especially the Largo is fantastic.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: quintett op.57 on May 14, 2007, 03:44:23 PM
I've discovered a masterpiece today : Haydn's quartet op.54 n°3.

Especially the Largo is fantastic.

I think the "middle period" string quartets contain some of the best pieces. In addition to Opp 54 & 55, I highly recommend the Op 50. Brilliant, clear through. :)

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Israfel the Black

Hmm... I have a question. I just recently picked up 5 Haydn Piano Sonatas performed by Richter, and I just noticed Hob. XVI:40 has an uncanny resemblance to a melody Schumann used in his Papillons, Op. 2. This is a melody that I assumed was original, but this is so close I am wondering if Schumann quoted him. I am aware Schumann studied Haydn's music rather closely. Is anyone aware if this is true, and perhaps common knowledge for what I am just now discovering? This is quite a revelation for me.

Haffner

Quote from: quintett op.57 on May 14, 2007, 03:44:23 PM
I've discovered a masterpiece today : Haydn's quartet op.54 n°3.

Especially the Largo is fantastic.




Amazing, and mostly memorable. I personally found the whole of op.54 to be devastating. The largo of no.2, and the opening movement of no.1 are also particularly outstanding. Haydn's manipulation of meter and key signatures are truly extraordinary.

Whom plays your favorite performance of this piece, quintett?

Israfel the Black

Quote from: Israfel the Black on May 14, 2007, 03:55:49 PM
Hmm... I have a question. I just recently picked up 5 Haydn Piano Sonatas performed by Richter, and I just noticed Hob. XVI:40 has an uncanny resemblance to a melody Schumann used in his Papillons, Op. 2. This is a melody that I assumed was original, but this is so close I am wondering if Schumann quoted him. I am aware Schumann studied Haydn's music rather closely. Is anyone aware if this is true, and perhaps common knowledge for what I am just now discovering? This is quite a revelation for me.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?  ???

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Israfel the Black on May 20, 2007, 07:23:42 AM
Can anyone confirm or deny this?  ???

Sorry, I can't, at least not with documentation. I did quite a bit of looking around when you first asked the question, and though I found out a lot about Papillons, I didn't find any mention of Haydn at all.  :-\

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

quintett op.57

I've just realised how modern 103 is.

there are some typical Beethovenian chords, but apart from this, the first movement makes me think about Liszt in terms of orchestration.
I love 104 but I regard 103 as an introduction to XIXth century great symphonists.
Some parts of the movements have really nothing to do with earlier Haydn or with late Mozart, especially the very beginning.

Haffner

Quote from: quintett op.57 on May 20, 2007, 09:36:18 AM
I've just realised how modern 103 is.

I love 104 but I regard 103 as an introduction to XIXth century great symphonists.






I hear this as well. And there are "proto-Romantic" (for a complete lack of a better term) parts in both the late trios and opps. 50, 76 and 77 as well.

quintett op.57

#88
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 20, 2007, 08:25:29 AM
Sorry, I can't, at least not with documentation. I did quite a bit of looking around when you first asked the question, and though I found out a lot about Papillons, I didn't find any mention of Haydn at all.  :-\
It's because Haydn is outrageously neglected as a piano composer.
If you don't know his piano music, get Gould or Brendel.

I'm going to listen to these pieces by Schumann & Haydn as soon as I'm in a piano mood.

Florestan

Quote from: quintett op.57 on May 20, 2007, 09:40:29 AM
I'm going to listen to these pieces by Schumann & Haydn as soon as I'm in a piano mood.

I'm always in a piano mood. :)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: quintett op.57 on May 20, 2007, 09:40:29 AM
It's because Haydn is outrageously neglected as a piano composer.
If you don't know his piano music, get Gould or Brendel.

I'm going to listen to these pieces by Schumann & Haydn as soon as I'm in a piano mood.

That's not the problem  ::) I have 2 complete cycles and several single disks of his piano music. You're right, it's fine music. But Israfel was asking about anything that talked about Schumann incorporating Haydn intentionally in Papillons. I can hear it fine, but I can't find anything that says he did it on purpose...

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Israfel the Black

Yes, I see. Curious. Thanks for researching it for me, however. I greatly appreciate it. I suppose this shall just be another unsolved mystery in Classical music. It sounds like a clear quotation to me.

quintett op.57

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 20, 2007, 10:19:53 AM
That's not the problem  ::) I have 2 complete cycles and several single disks of his piano music. You're right, it's fine music. But Israfel was asking about anything that talked about Schumann incorporating Haydn intentionally in Papillons. I can hear it fine, but I can't find anything that says he did it on purpose...

8)
I think you can build your opinion by listening, it's why I'm going to check.  :)
After listening carefully Haydn's XVI:49 sonata (2nd mvt), I got convinced Beethoven had quoted themes in it to compose the moonlight sonata (1st mvt).

Israfel the Black

I think Haydn was so vigorously studied and admired during the era that it was impossible for composers not to draw upon his melodies, intentionally or not.

FideLeo

#94
This recording is presently intriguing me, and I would very much appreciate any feedback on it.  The name Christophe Coin doesn't hurt my interest one bit either. :)



Haydn, deLirium
Concerto, notturno per lire organizzate
Divertimenti per baryton
Ensemble Baroque de Limoges, direction Christophe Coin
Quatuor Mosaïques

A picture I found of them performing what may be on this disc.  The two lire organizzati are too cute! :)

More pictures and sound files for the instrument here: http://matthias.loibner.net/lira/lira.html

HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Gurn Blanston

Fl.Tr.
That's on my wish list, it hasn't been released in the States yet, but any day now, IIRC.

Yes, feedback would be nice, given that you are the only person I know who has heard it yet!  :)

Note the instrument on the far right?  Baryton or Viola de Gamba? Hard to tell without seeing the back of it... :-\

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Grazioso

Quote from: fl.traverso on May 21, 2007, 12:07:31 AM
This recording is presently intriguing me, and I would very much appreciate any feedback on it.  The name Christophe Coin doesn't hurt my interest one bit either. :)


Haydn, deLirium
Concerto, notturno per lire organizzate
Divertimenti per baryton
Ensemble Baroque de Limoges, direction Christophe Coin
Quatuor Mosaïques




With Coin and the Mosaiques, it would be a great surprise if it weren't superb. Thanks for calling this release to our attention.
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Haffner

Quote from: Grazioso on May 21, 2007, 04:28:21 AM
With Coin and the Mosaiques, it would be a great surprise if it weren't superb. Thanks for calling this release to our attention.



Yay! The QM kick boo-HOO-tay! :) :)

SonicMan46

Quote from: fl.traverso on May 21, 2007, 12:07:31 AM
This recording is presently intriguing me, and I would very much appreciate any feedback on it.  The name Christophe Coin doesn't hurt my interest one bit either. :)



FT - that picture broght back some memories - check out THIS POST from the old forum - different pic but a link to the same website.  :D

FideLeo

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 21, 2007, 04:00:21 AM
Fl.Tr.
That's on my wish list, it hasn't been released in the States yet, but any day now, IIRC.

Yes, feedback would be nice, given that you are the only person I know who has heard it yet!  :)

Note the instrument on the far right?  Baryton or Viola de Gamba? Hard to tell without seeing the back of it... :-\

8)

Hi Gurn,

This recording is also on my wish list (or rather at the top of it) so I haven't heard it myself, either :-\.  (Sorry for all misunderstandings incurred.)  According to Amazon uk, it doesn't get released here until the 29th this month, but I know it has been available for sometime on the continent.  (Hint, hint to our EU members who do early reviews. ;))  As usual, I enjoy "slight" Haydn as much as I do his masterpieces.  For one thing, I never seem ever to get tired of listening to his organ concertos.  So I am having a lot of expectation for this one also.  Should turn out to be another charmer! 

The instrument to the right in the picture appears to be a baryton because a tenor viola da gamba (similar in size) does not have as many strings - some of which are no doubt "sympathetic wire strings," as named in the wiki article on the instrument.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryton

Also picture of an "Estehazy baryton":


It looks a lot like what Coin was playing, too. :)
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!