Author Topic: Haydn's Haus  (Read 1101918 times)

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Offline quintett op.57

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2007, 02:44:23 PM »
I've discovered a masterpiece today : Haydn's quartet op.54 n°3.

Especially the Largo is fantastic.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #81 on: May 14, 2007, 02:51:08 PM »
I've discovered a masterpiece today : Haydn's quartet op.54 n°3.

Especially the Largo is fantastic.

I think the "middle period" string quartets contain some of the best pieces. In addition to Opp 54 & 55, I highly recommend the Op 50. Brilliant, clear through. :)

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Offline Israfel the Black

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #82 on: May 14, 2007, 02:55:49 PM »
Hmm... I have a question. I just recently picked up 5 Haydn Piano Sonatas performed by Richter, and I just noticed Hob. XVI:40 has an uncanny resemblance to a melody Schumann used in his Papillons, Op. 2. This is a melody that I assumed was original, but this is so close I am wondering if Schumann quoted him. I am aware Schumann studied Haydn's music rather closely. Is anyone aware if this is true, and perhaps common knowledge for what I am just now discovering? This is quite a revelation for me.

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #83 on: May 16, 2007, 08:00:24 AM »
I've discovered a masterpiece today : Haydn's quartet op.54 n°3.

Especially the Largo is fantastic.




Amazing, and mostly memorable. I personally found the whole of op.54 to be devastating. The largo of no.2, and the opening movement of no.1 are also particularly outstanding. Haydn's manipulation of meter and key signatures are truly extraordinary.

Whom plays your favorite performance of this piece, quintett?

Offline Israfel the Black

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #84 on: May 20, 2007, 06:23:42 AM »
Hmm... I have a question. I just recently picked up 5 Haydn Piano Sonatas performed by Richter, and I just noticed Hob. XVI:40 has an uncanny resemblance to a melody Schumann used in his Papillons, Op. 2. This is a melody that I assumed was original, but this is so close I am wondering if Schumann quoted him. I am aware Schumann studied Haydn's music rather closely. Is anyone aware if this is true, and perhaps common knowledge for what I am just now discovering? This is quite a revelation for me.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?  ???

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #85 on: May 20, 2007, 07:25:29 AM »
Can anyone confirm or deny this?  ???

Sorry, I can't, at least not with documentation. I did quite a bit of looking around when you first asked the question, and though I found out a lot about Papillons, I didn't find any mention of Haydn at all.  :-\

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Offline quintett op.57

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2007, 08:36:18 AM »
I've just realised how modern 103 is.

there are some typical Beethovenian chords, but apart from this, the first movement makes me think about Liszt in terms of orchestration.
I love 104 but I regard 103 as an introduction to XIXth century great symphonists.
Some parts of the movements have really nothing to do with earlier Haydn or with late Mozart, especially the very beginning.

Haffner

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #87 on: May 20, 2007, 08:40:10 AM »
I've just realised how modern 103 is.

I love 104 but I regard 103 as an introduction to XIXth century great symphonists.






I hear this as well. And there are "proto-Romantic" (for a complete lack of a better term) parts in both the late trios and opps. 50, 76 and 77 as well.

Offline quintett op.57

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #88 on: May 20, 2007, 08:40:29 AM »
Sorry, I can't, at least not with documentation. I did quite a bit of looking around when you first asked the question, and though I found out a lot about Papillons, I didn't find any mention of Haydn at all.  :-\
It's because Haydn is outrageously neglected as a piano composer.
If you don't know his piano music, get Gould or Brendel.

I'm going to listen to these pieces by Schumann & Haydn as soon as I'm in a piano mood.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 08:42:31 AM by quintett op.57 »

Offline Florestan

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2007, 08:59:49 AM »
I'm going to listen to these pieces by Schumann & Haydn as soon as I'm in a piano mood.

I'm always in a piano mood. :)
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.”  --- Victor Hugo

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #90 on: May 20, 2007, 09:19:53 AM »
It's because Haydn is outrageously neglected as a piano composer.
If you don't know his piano music, get Gould or Brendel.

I'm going to listen to these pieces by Schumann & Haydn as soon as I'm in a piano mood.

That's not the problem  ::) I have 2 complete cycles and several single disks of his piano music. You're right, it's fine music. But Israfel was asking about anything that talked about Schumann incorporating Haydn intentionally in Papillons. I can hear it fine, but I can't find anything that says he did it on purpose...

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Offline Israfel the Black

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #91 on: May 20, 2007, 10:04:13 AM »
Yes, I see. Curious. Thanks for researching it for me, however. I greatly appreciate it. I suppose this shall just be another unsolved mystery in Classical music. It sounds like a clear quotation to me.

Offline quintett op.57

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #92 on: May 20, 2007, 10:26:37 AM »
That's not the problem  ::) I have 2 complete cycles and several single disks of his piano music. You're right, it's fine music. But Israfel was asking about anything that talked about Schumann incorporating Haydn intentionally in Papillons. I can hear it fine, but I can't find anything that says he did it on purpose...

8)
I think you can build your opinion by listening, it's why I'm going to check.  :)
After listening carefully Haydn's XVI:49 sonata (2nd mvt), I got convinced Beethoven had quoted themes in it to compose the moonlight sonata (1st mvt).

Offline Israfel the Black

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #93 on: May 20, 2007, 11:02:15 AM »
I think Haydn was so vigorously studied and admired during the era that it was impossible for composers not to draw upon his melodies, intentionally or not.

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #94 on: May 20, 2007, 11:07:31 PM »
This recording is presently intriguing me, and I would very much appreciate any feedback on it.  The name Christophe Coin doesn't hurt my interest one bit either. :)



Haydn, deLirium
Concerto, notturno per lire organizzate
Divertimenti per baryton
Ensemble Baroque de Limoges, direction Christophe Coin
Quatuor Mosaïques

A picture I found of them performing what may be on this disc.  The two lire organizzati are too cute! :)

More pictures and sound files for the instrument here: http://matthias.loibner.net/lira/lira.html

« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 07:19:20 AM by fl.traverso »
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #95 on: May 21, 2007, 03:00:21 AM »
Fl.Tr.
That's on my wish list, it hasn't been released in the States yet, but any day now, IIRC.

Yes, feedback would be nice, given that you are the only person I know who has heard it yet!  :)

Note the instrument on the far right?  Baryton or Viola de Gamba? Hard to tell without seeing the back of it... :-\

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Offline Grazioso

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #96 on: May 21, 2007, 03:28:21 AM »
This recording is presently intriguing me, and I would very much appreciate any feedback on it.  The name Christophe Coin doesn't hurt my interest one bit either. :)


Haydn, deLirium
Concerto, notturno per lire organizzate
Divertimenti per baryton
Ensemble Baroque de Limoges, direction Christophe Coin
Quatuor Mosaïques




With Coin and the Mosaiques, it would be a great surprise if it weren't superb. Thanks for calling this release to our attention.
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Haffner

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #97 on: May 21, 2007, 04:58:10 AM »
With Coin and the Mosaiques, it would be a great surprise if it weren't superb. Thanks for calling this release to our attention.



Yay! The QM kick boo-HOO-tay! :) :)

Online SonicMan46

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #98 on: May 21, 2007, 07:13:09 AM »
This recording is presently intriguing me, and I would very much appreciate any feedback on it.  The name Christophe Coin doesn't hurt my interest one bit either. :)



FT - that picture broght back some memories - check out THIS POST from the old forum - different pic but a link to the same website.  :D

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Haydn's Haus
« Reply #99 on: May 21, 2007, 07:37:41 AM »
Fl.Tr.
That's on my wish list, it hasn't been released in the States yet, but any day now, IIRC.

Yes, feedback would be nice, given that you are the only person I know who has heard it yet!  :)

Note the instrument on the far right?  Baryton or Viola de Gamba? Hard to tell without seeing the back of it... :-\

8)

Hi Gurn,

This recording is also on my wish list (or rather at the top of it) so I haven't heard it myself, either :-\.  (Sorry for all misunderstandings incurred.)  According to Amazon uk, it doesn't get released here until the 29th this month, but I know it has been available for sometime on the continent.  (Hint, hint to our EU members who do early reviews. ;))  As usual, I enjoy "slight" Haydn as much as I do his masterpieces.  For one thing, I never seem ever to get tired of listening to his organ concertos.  So I am having a lot of expectation for this one also.  Should turn out to be another charmer! 

The instrument to the right in the picture appears to be a baryton because a tenor viola da gamba (similar in size) does not have as many strings - some of which are no doubt "sympathetic wire strings," as named in the wiki article on the instrument.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryton

Also picture of an "Estehazy baryton":


It looks a lot like what Coin was playing, too. :)
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!