Haydn's Haus

[The new erato]

I just ordered the op 54/55 double, and then I'll see if I'll spring for the rest of the series as an HIP supplement to the Mosaiques.

[snyprrr]

Who's "Razor" has the cleanest shave? Seriously.

Op.55 seems to have the least amount of options, the new META4 disc notwithstanding. Again, the Lindsays look tempting here. I remember having the Kodaly long ago and not being impressed here. I imagine the Amadeus are steady contenders.

How does a HIP "Razor" work?

[Coopmv]

These are all the Haydn String Quartets I have in my collection ...

Kaiserquartett                             Eder Quartett   TELDEC
Kaiserquartett                             Kraub Quartett   Berlin Classics
String Quartets Op. 76 Nos 4-6   Kodaly Quartet   NAXOS
String Quartets Op. 71 Nos 1-3   Kodaly Quartet   NAXOS
String Quartets Op. 74 Nos 1-3   Kodaly Quartet   NAXOS

My favorite is the Kaiserquartett ...

[snyprrr]

Just got the Kodaly Op.77...

I had to return the Amadeus set, but listening now to the Kodaly I can remember some of the diffs and similarities.

As I said before, the Kodaly seemed to have the longest timings out there, and finally I get my answer. 1/1 is fully 2 mins. longer than the Amadeus, but the general tempo isn't that much slower, so it has to be a repeat (though I'm having trouble figuring out where it begins). Except for disliking the very first chord, I thought the Kodaly corrected what I might have thought was missing from the Amadeus. The Kodaly aren't as "gutsy" as the Amadeus, though, having a much "smoother" ensemble sound (I did miss the Amadeus "sound"). I can't tell, but is there some "smudging" in the Kodaly sound?

1/2 is taken muuuch slower by the Kodaly (6:02 vs 7:40) even though there appears to be a repeat addition by the Kodaly (just 20secs. longer than QM, if that helps). I thought the Amadeus could have played it slower, and the Kodaly certainly make up for it. I don't know if they play it too slow, but they manage to keep it up nonetheless. Again, I kind of miss the Amadeus "sound" (whether the playing or recording, I don't know).

1/3 really shines with the Kodaly. Those chirping high notes have a charm I don't recall from the Amadeus. Though timings are relatively close (30secs.) the Kodaly seem to be just that amount slower that makes the whole thing work . The funny little upward scale is taken just about right in the Kodaly whereas the Amadeus do not retard in the slightest.

1/4 seems similar, though the Kodaly are 1:20 longer. Must be a repeat, though I can't tell where it begins. For 77/1, the Amadeus had the absolute shortest times of the 10 comparisons.

Though the Kodaly are a full 2 mins. longer than the Amadeus in 2/1, this must be due to a repeat. The Kodaly seem to correct whatever problem I had with the Amadeus here (Goldilocks syndrome), though, perhaps, there could be a little... MORE. I just want MORE. Only 2/4 had any severe discrepencies (4:27 vs 6:09), but once again, it must be a repeat deletion. The Kodaly here aren't as fast as I would prefer (maybe no one is), but overall the Kodaly manage the Prestos just fine.

Ultimately, the Amadeus had great ensemble, sound, and generally just could've used a little tempo alteration (up or down). The Kodaly were more delicate than I'd hoped, but the contrast compared to the Amadeus was invaluable. Neither was perfect in tempos: technically, they could always be faster.

So, the Kodaly wasn't as "opulent" as I'd hoped (I thought the Unitarian Church was more reverberant), nor as "gutsy" (more homogenous than I'd hoped, which, of course, is not neccesarily a bad thing), but I don't think you can levy the usual "Kodaly criticisms" against Op.77. I mean, it "sounds" just fine, but I can tell, for me, my journey with Op.77 has just begun, oy vey!

Next I'd like to try QM, QF, Archi-b, Edding, Kujiken, or Smithson (sorry, Que, my computy just won't play stuff (or I'm dense, which could be)), and one other modern... but who (I'd love to hear the Amati)?

[snyprrr]

I also got the "Caspar da Salo" Quartett on PILZ/Vienna Masters playing Op.64 1-3.

ha, for $0.25... so, according to the "you get what you pay for" folks, I should be crying, but, I'm not (4-6, at $0.79, should arrive tomorrow). No, I don't have a compare, and it's been ages since I heard these SQs (if I ever bothered in the first place), but the anonymous quartet rocks these SQs! They are extremely tight and perky. I can't imagine trimming too much fat off of these performances! Razor sharp, yet very friendly.

Another perusal of timings yielded the quickest Op.64 yet (as opposed to the Lindsays with the longest); but, no matter.

But I must say, these SQs (1-3) are the least memorable Haydn SQs so far, to my ears (along w/ Op.71). I'm hoping 4-6 will perk me up more. (I haven't heard the "Lark" for years) Based on these first three, I don't quite understand their popularity. I'm just not finding any "cool" things here, whereas in Op.54 there appears to be so much innovation (54/2). No melodies are popping out at me; the most memorable mvmt. so far was the Scherzando of 64/1. I do like the way 64/1 (in C major) opens almost just like 20/2 (also in C), but just the very first 2secs.

Anyhow, Gurn says this is his fav for Op.64, bar none. Are there any other believers out there? Forget about the price (or lack thereof). This appears to be quite the contender. Anyone?

[DavidW]

No melodies are popping out at me; the most memorable mvmt. so far was the Scherzando of 64/1. I do like the way 64/1 (in C major) opens almost just like 20/2 (also in C), but just the very first 2secs.

Is it just melody to you?

[snyprrr]

Yes and no.

But these Op.64 1-3... I feel like they're just not giving me much to hold on to. It's like Haydn's "working stuff out." It's got incidental interest in what's "going on," but I was hoping for some melodic appeal. So far, this set seems worlds away from Op.54, but seems like the precursor to Op.71/74 (which, of course, it is). It seems these three opera (plus a good part of Op.76) are more concerned with other things, rather than killer melody. I'm sure I knew this about Haydn, but...

Op.54 seems so much "more" than Op.64 1-3 to me. I dunno...

But this PILZ recording is really something else... awesome. Pithy.

[DavidW]

Try Op 64 #6, the first movement has a very stirring melody.  Of course it's more interesting what he does with it.  I love the effortless way in which he varies it.

[snyprrr]

4-6 will hopefully arrive tomorrow.

[Antoine Marchand]

The Seven Last Words has come down to us in no fewer than five versions, all of which were produced over a period of some 10 years:

a) the original version for orchestra, frequently dated 1785, in other sources 1787;

b) the version for string quartet , completed before 21 June 1787, and made under Haydn's supervision.

c) the version for "Clavicembalo o Fortepiano", also referred as a "Piano Score" (in his letter of  21-6-1787) "selbst übersehen und corrigirt", i.e., also created under his supervision.

d) a version (perhaps even two) as a oratorio for soloists, chorus and orchestra, made by Joseph Friebert, music director of the Cathedral of Passau, 1792 (?).

e) an oratorio version made by Haydn himself, probably dating from 1795/1796.
   
This information is taken from the liner notes written by Jos van Immerseel for the booklet of his own version on fortepiano of this work.

The version for "Clavicembalo o Fortepiano" is one of my preferred arrangements of The Seven Last Words. Although this version was not written by the composer himself, he revised and approved enthusiastically the results, as demonstrate two letters written to his publisher Artaria. There Haydn writes: "The original of the 7 Words, as well as both the quartet and piano versions, have been checked and corrected by myself". Two days after: "I hereby send the proofs of the 7 words in all three versions. Among other things I must praise the piano score, which has been prepared very well and with exceptional care" (quoted from the excellent liner notes of the Brilliant set).    

In the last years several versions of this arrangement has been recorded using copies of period instruments. During this week I have been listening to all my four discs devoted to this work. Although my favorite version is performed by Brautigam, the other three are all excellent and I would be happy with any of them.  

Any other version on fortepiano or modern piano?

I also have seen on internet a version by Aapo Häkkinen (on clavichord), but I don't know it.

Here my discs:

I. BART VAN OORT, fortepiano
Haydn – Klavierstücke (complete)
Fantasias
Variations Dances
The Seven Last Words
5 CDs

CD 5
The Seven Last Words
Die sieben letzten Worte unseres Erlösers am Kreuze Hob XX/2 (1787)
1. L'Introduzione (6:33)
2. Sonata I Pater, dimitte illis, quia nesciunt, quid faciunt (7:00)
3. Sonata II Hodie mecum eris in Paradiso (6:42)
4. Sonata III Mulier, ecce filius tuus (7:26)
5. Sonata IV Deus meus, ut quid derelquisti me? (5:50)
6. Sonata V Sittio (6:40)
7. Sonata VI Consummatum est (7:25)
8. Sonata VII In manus tuas, Domine, commendo Spiritum meum (7:05)
9. Il Terremoto (2:05)
Fortepiano after Walter (ca. 1795) by Chris Maene (Ruiselede, 2000)
Recorded 10 May 2007, Hervormde Kerk, Rhoon, The Netherlands. DDD
Total timing 56:54
Brilliant Classics


II. RONALD BRAUTIGAM, fortepiano
Joseph Haydn – The Complete Music for Solo Keyboard
15 CDs

CD 15
(available like a single disc)

Die sieben letzten Worte unseres Erlosers am Kreuze
The Seven Last Words of the Saviour on the Cross
(Authorized keyboard arrangement of the orchestral work with the same title, Hob. XX:1, performed from a facsimile of the original edition)
1. Intrada. Maestoso e Adagio (6:29)
2. Sonata I. Largo (6:33)
3. Sonata II. Grave e Cantabile (8:47)
4.- Sonata III. Grave (9:00)
5. Sonata IV. Largo (8:19)
6. Sonata V. Adagio (8:23)
7. Sonata VI. Lento (7:48)
8. Sonata VII. Largo (7:41)
9. Il Terremoto. Presto (1:47)
Fortepiano by Paul McNulty, Amsterdam 1992, after A.G. Walter, ca. 1795
Recorded at the Lanna Church, Sweden, August 2002. DDD
Total timing 66:22
Bis

http://www.youtube.com/v/XUVaBTpvtmI

http://www.youtube.com/v/J3LV5SlpqyQ


III. JAROSLAV TŮMA, fortepiano
Die sieben letzten Worte unseres Erlösers am Kreuze
The Seven Last Words of Christ (keyboard version)

1. Introduzione (5:07)
2-8. Sonatas I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII (64:07)
9. Il terremoto (2:09)
Fortepiano, copy of Walter and sons, 1806 (Vienna)
Recording in Prague, August 30-31, 2003. SACD (Hybrid)
Total timing: 71:27
Praga Digitals


IV. JOS VAN IMMERSEEL, fortepiano
Sette sonate con un introduzione ed al fine un teremoto sopra le sette ultime parole del Nostro Redentore in Croce
1. L'Introduzione. Maestoso e Adagio (6:50)
2. Sonata I. Largo (7:45)
3. Sonata II. Grave e Cantabile (6:17)
4.- Sonata III. Grave (6:53)
5. Sonata IV. Largo (5:55)
6. Sonata V. Adagio (7:23)
7. Sonata VI. Lento (5:43)
8. Sonata VII. Largo (6:08)
9. Il Terremoto. Presto (2:04)
Fortepiano Chrstopher Clarke, 1988. Cluny after Anton Walter, Vienna
Recording dates: 17/18 May 1994. DDD
Total timing 56:40
Channel Classics

[Antoine Marchand]

Some covers:

[Antoine Marchand]

Another two:

[jlaurson]

Continuing "Haydn 2009"

Haydn 2009 - Harmoniemesse

For his last big work, the 1802 Harmoniemesse, written for the occasion of the name-day of Princess Maria Hermengild Esterházy, Joseph Haydn chose a new, different compositional style. It's no longer the 'classical sound' we are used to, but something altogether bolder. That can be disconcerting to ears that expect to be casually entertained with that easy beauty and gay spirit that features so strongly in most of his work. Intrepid, if not quite yet 'Beethovenesque-romantic', the Kyrie and Gloria especially are rather demanding.

If you continue to listen attentively, you'll happen upon the gem of "Et incarnatus est", where the Gloria lets up; later the quickening Agnus Dei that concludes with the Dona nobis pacem, a positively rousing, joyous plea for peace...

Continued at WETA

[Valentino]

4 and 6 are the highlights of the set, IMO.

Have heard QM do 3 and 6 live, and I bought their recording of the op. after that. 6 is fabulous, 3 less engaging, both in concert and on disc.

[Gurn Blanston]

An interesting article for Haydn fans;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/may/29/joseph-haydn-comedy-classical-music

I had the pleasure and privilege of conducting Haydn's Symphony No 80 in D minor in Salzburg recently. It's an astonishing work, full of surprises, and almost completely unknown. The first movement is typically Sturm und Drang until the exposition is suddenly interrupted by a charming and elegant dance-like theme. In the development section, Haydn introduces unusually long pauses and, with daring modulations, makes unexpected excursions into strange tonalities. The last movement - the Presto - is a tour de force of rhythmic ambiguities: the listener has to guess where the upbeats and the downbeats are; only after 32 bars does Haydn introduce rhythmic regularity. It's ingenious, and extremely funny. But in Salzburg no one laughed. No one even smiled. It seems to be much easier to make an audience cry than it is to make them laugh. There are many music-lovers who won't even admit that humour has a place in what we call classical music. These are people who have no difficulty recognising sadness, tragedy, grief, majesty and grandeur - because these are serious attributes, and they want their beloved music to be "serious". For them jokes are made of cheap, vulgar and inferior matter that cannot be tolerated on the altar of High Art.

Several years ago in a Tokyo bookstore I came upon a strange book in which the author explained how to understand jokes. Each joke or anecdote was followed by several pages of instructions telling the reader why it was supposed to be funny.

Haydn was writing for a public that understood perfectly his musical language. In Eisenstadt and Esterháza, in Vienna and Paris, and first and foremost in London, he was surrounded by a small but knowledgeable circle of professional and amateur musicians who received each new work with interest and appreciation. His audience was familiar with his earlier compositions, they knew his personal style and recognised immediately the unusual features of a new symphony. Musical expectations and surprises did not have to be explained, and Haydn's humour was able to flourish. Today's listening community is of course very different, and all too often we feel the need of a "Japanese booklet" to enlighten certain members of the audience.

Haydn's keyboard works are full of delicious surprises. Take his early Capriccio in G major, which takes as its theme the folk song Acht Sauschneider Müssen Sein. The text of this song is a humorous one: it describes castrating a pig, an operation for which no fewer than eight expert butchers were needed. Haydn translates this into musical terms by wandering wildly from one key to the next, presenting the main theme in its entirety or in fragmented form through various registers of the instrument. There is nothing conventional about this piece, nothing that would have met listeners' expectations. The C major Fantasy (Capriccio) was written almost a quarter of a century later, in 1789. Compared to its predecessor, this is a mature masterpiece, a curious mixture of sonata and rondo forms. On two occasions - on a pause over an octave in the bass - the music comes to a standstill. Here the composer instructs the player to "Tenuto intanto, finché non si sente più il suono" - hold until the sound is not heard any more. Even on a period instrument this pause feels painfully long - the audience begins to get worried - has the poor pianist had a memory lapse? But suddenly the bass quietly slides a semitone upwards, opening new harmonic territories. It is both hilarious and surprising.

In his last piano sonata in E flat major the majestic opening movement is followed by a noble Adagio in E major. This key change alone feels shocking. Conventions of the time dictated that this second movement should have been in the dominant key - B flat major, or in C minor, the parallel minor. The juxtaposition of E flat major and E major was very daring. No composer before Haydn had had the nerve to be so experimental, although Beethoven, for one, followed his example (his late string quartet Op131 has its first movement in C sharp minor, the second in D major), and Schubert's C major string quintet moves from E major in its second movement to an F minor middle section. Haydn's Adagio ends solemnly in E major. As the piano sonata's final movement begins, the right hand alone plays five repeated quavers on G, and we think we're in E minor. The bass then enters on the tonic, E flat. It feels as if Haydn is telling us: "Wrong again."

His unjustly neglected piano trios are amazing works. The one in E flat minor - who else would have written a piece in this key in the 1790s? - opens with an expressive Andante Cantabile, written in double variation form. The following Allegro (there are only two movements) carries the subtitle "Jacob's dream" (an allusion to Jacob's dream of a ladder stretching up to heaven). According to a contemporary anecdote, the violinist of the trio that gave the first performance was infamously arrogant and vain. The first page of music is fairly simple and can be easily sightread. However, after the page-turn the fiddle part escapes into hair-raising heights, which must have presented the musician with serious difficulties - as well as teaching him a lesson in humility.

Haydn's 104 symphonies are widely admired, although only a handful are regularly performed, and when they are, they are invariably placed at the beginning of programmes. This is a pity. Audiences, at the start of concerts, do not really listen to the music. They need to be warmed up - just as the players do - and so Haydn's wonderful ideas are not fully appreciated. Why don't we hear these symphonies at the end of the programme? Or indeed, what's wrong with concert of nothing but Haydn symphonies?

Take No 60 "Il Distratto", a theatrical masterpiece in six movements where in the middle of the Finale the music simply stops and the violins find they need to retune their instruments. Or the one in D major, no 93, the first of the so-called London symphonies. Its second movement proceeds with tender elegance until the brutal interruption of the bassoons - they feel like the proverbial bull in the china-shop. Even today, such tonal effects still feel comic and naughty.

Haydn was an astounding composer, and humour is only one part of his wonderful art. Whole movements, even entire works, are built from one tiny cell - a compositional technique that the young Beethoven learned from his teacher. His sense of proportion was unerring. In the operas and oratorios he overwhelms us with dramatic force and power. The sacred works, like the late masses and his Seven Last Words, are deeply felt and profoundly moving. In his string quartets, symphonies and piano sonatas, he discovered new horizons. The world needs to appreciate him much more: of all the really great composers, he is still the most underrated.

Let me finish with a joke, not a politically correct one, but one that - I guess - might have amused Joseph Haydn.

On a psychiatric ward the patients are sitting in a circle, telling jokes. The jokes are numbers. "58," says one. The others roll about with laughter. Another one shouts: "63." Hilarity ensues. The chief psychiatrist is jealously observing the proceedings - he wants to join in the fun. "17!" he says. Deadly silence. "What's the matter?" he asks. "Isn't there a joke number 17?" "Of course there is," a patient answers, "but you told it so badly."

• András Schiff performs Haydn piano works at the Wigmore Hall, London, on Sunday, and lectures on Haydn at the same venue at 2pm today. Radio 3's Haydn season launches on Sunday. This is an edited and translated version of an article that appeared in the May edition of Fono Forum.

[haydnguy]

Thanks for pointing out that article, Gurn.

I have been listening to the Haydn Symphonies in my survey of the Brilliant boxed set and making a list of those pieces I like best. Just before you posted the article I was reminding myself that in the future I could not ignore the ones that were not on my list because there are really good ones that I didn't write down. What a composer!! 

In my survey I'm getting ready to start:

Symphony No. 49 in F minor 'LA PASSIONE'
Symphony No. 50 in C
Symphony No. 51 in B flat

[Florestan]

An interesting article for Haydn fans;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/may/29/joseph-haydn-comedy-classical-music

Excellent! Many thanks for posting it.

[karlhenning]

Take No 60 "Il Distratto", a theatrical masterpiece in six movements where in the middle of the Finale the music simply stops and the violins find they need to retune their instruments. Or the one in D major, no 93, the first of the so-called London symphonies. Its second movement proceeds with tender elegance until the brutal interruption of the bassoons - they feel like the proverbial bull in the china-shop. Even today, such tonal effects still feel comic and naughty.

Naughty Haydn?

[DavidW]

I'm surprised that he finds his audience to be humorless when the humor is built around shock value that we no longer have.  When we can listen to dissonant, atonal, arrhythmic music with a smile on our face, the zany antics of Haydn seem tepid in comparison.  I love Haydn's music, he is my favorite composer but his humor is dated.

[karlhenning]

I'm surprised that he finds his audience to be humorless when the humor is built around shock value that we no longer have.

Perfectly apt, David. Bravo!