Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

What a lovely instrument that is, Dave. The keys are beautiful! Tortoiseshell you reckon? Adlam turns out to be more well-known for his instrument building than for his playing. He built the ones used in that super Mozart disk of Hogwood's "The Secret Mozart", and also played along on the couple of 4 hand pieces in there. I've found a couple more Haydn clavichord disks that I'm going to pick up. Only sticking point is that they tend to duplicate material due to certain pieces being just perfect for the instrument. So it goes.



----------------
Listening to:
Anner Bylsma / Stanley Hoogland - DuPort Sonata in D for 2 Cellos and Fortepiano 2nd mvmt - Adagio

[snyprrr]

So, I guess I haaad to get the ABQ in Op.76 1,5,6. These three are some of the lesser known Haydn, and I just couldn't resist the compare to the Auryns, which I have been enjoying for a few weeks.

We went direct back and forth comparisons of individual mvmts. for quite a while, and, in a nutshell, both groups are of such utmost quality that it is simply their personalities that differ. The ABQ come off as the schoolmasters, whilst the Auryn's approach is more unbuttoned. The ABQ come off more masculine, the Auryn feminine(sp?).

I think we've established the different schools of quartet playing, and, I think both the Auryn and the ABQ could be categorized in the same, ultra-refined, Viennese style of playing (as opposed to the Lindsays, or the Tatrai). It is a credit to both groups that honors are pretty evenly divided between them. In one mvmt., the ABQ will dominate, and, poof, in the next, the Auryn.

Forgive me, I know, but here are the timings, and, I think they are interesting:

ABQ                                             Auryn

76/1

5:53                                             9:03* (repeat)
7:07                                              7:10
2:23                                              2:26
5:57                                              6:11

76/5

4:21                                              4:58
6:21                                               8:45
2:37                                              2:52
3:50                                               3:52

76/6

6:36                                              6:52
6:48                                              8:31
3:27                                              3:42
4:36                                              6:40



As you can see, for the most part things are the same, the last two slow mvmts. providing the only really radical differences. The slow mvmt. of No.1, with exact timings, nevertheless yields different results, and here I thought the ABQ's greater intensity paid off (they also pull off the off-time violin thing with more nuance). By contrast, the Auryn's slower tempo in the famous Largo (No.5) is perfect, though the ABQ's rather matter-of-fact, almost two minute faster version gives a completely different, though valid, view. I do believe there is no repeat issue here, just two different approaches (I like Auryn here).

Both quartets have excellent contributions from the cellist.

The ABQ's Presto mvmts. win out in sheer bravura of perculating ensemble. They dig into their attacks with more wood, almost like the kitty cat sound- fft fft fft, I hope you know what I mean . The Auryn are a little more Mozart, whereas the ABQ are a little more Beethoven.

...I'm a little bit country...
In the Menuetto of No.1 is probably the best example. In the middle, there is a great, long, violin solo, and the ABQ play it well enough, but when you hear the Auryn, they bring out sooooo much more in terms of humore, and nuance, and humanity, and changing tone color. You're just not hearing that in the ABQ. I'll admit, the ABQ could've loosened their collars a bit here. Compared with the Auryn, they are most definitely thee professional quartet, and I do mean that in the best possible way. The Auryn just have a special charm here, like they are just in it for life. I think the ABQ are fitting Haydn into history, whereas the Auryn are just playing their hearts out.

I will say that I was initially disappointed in the ABQ, but half of that was the masculinity of their playing. Now, after going back and forth a lot, I have to say that the two groups complement each other wonderfully. I will give a very very slight overall nod to the Auryn, but they never ever rise to the passion of the ABQ. Both have perfect this and perfect that. Both find things the other did not. Is it apples and oranges, or, apples and apples???

The Auryn/Tacet recording is beyond reproach, whereas the ABQ/EMI recording is similar, though not audiophile, and a bit muscular (which is in no way a real criticism of their very good recording). This was NOT recorded "live", as so many of the ABQ's latter recordings were, and, I for one, was totally looking forward to this being "live". I thought their second LvB run was "live".

Honestly, now I want to try a TOTALLY different type of playing to compare with, say, either Tatrai, or QM/QF. I have the Alberni arriving tomorrow, and I don't know their style (the person I got it from didn't "warm" to them!!!).

BOTTOM LINE: in this, the perfect, Viennese-styled way of playing Haydn, both groups form an unbeatable tag-team matchup that should leave the competition running for cover,... if there was any. Alberni? Carmina? Tokyo?

Considering how many excellent groups there are of different playing styles (HIP, Modern, Rustic, Rebel), I think my SQ listening has just taken a turn!




btw- I was at Borders today and actually touched a copy of the Hyperion Op.17. Oooo, Ahhh!!! The packaging sure makes you wanna buy it, it's real purdy.

[Herman]

I think we've established the different schools of quartet playing, and, I think both the Auryn and the ABQ could be categorized in the same, ultra-refined, Viennese style of playing (as opposed to the Lindsays, or the Tatrai).

The Auryn Qt has no Viennese roots whatsoever. I believe two of its members are from northern Germany, and two from Britain. In their training they haven't been particularly Vienna-oriented either.

[Gurn Blanston]

Here is another list of recent acquisitions. It is a great pleasure for me to be able to get my hands on some of these disks of harder to find music.



The Hacker nocturnes are a period instrument version of the 8 nocturnes for lira organizatte, but they are NOT the original version for the King of Naples; they are the version that Haydn reorchestrated version for flute and oboe that Haydn himself did so he could take them to London in 1791. These 8 works are also available by L'Archibudelli, which are on a single disk. It is interesting to note that the overall length is 38 minutes longer on the Hacker version, which I guess must be attributed to repeats. I will be pleased when this shows up (it's in the mail still) so I can check that.

Next are the 2 volumes of London symphonies by Collegium Musicum / Hickox. I have had these for a couple of years at least, since I got them as downloads when they first came available. With Hickox' death last year the cycle will never be completed, and given the sparsity of PI versions of the London's, I bought them to improve the quality of my files, and in order to have them before they moved on to $100/disk...

Hirsch on the Hammerflügel doing 6 sonatas from <> 1774. OK, this was a variety thing, an indulgence if you will. I have Brautigam, Oort and Schornsheim in these works now, and am quite satisfied. I guess I just love saying "Hammerflügel"...

This is a lovely disk, Nuria Rial singing a group of "insert" (replacement) arias that Haydn composed for Lucia Pollzelli (his mistress in Esterhazy). I just listened to this last night for the first time. Very nice, and rarely recorded pieces too. It was common practice at that time when an opera was to be given and the composer was far away, for a local composer to replace any tunes that didn't suit the singers' voices with ones that did. Pollzelli didn't have the greatest voice int he world on terms of range, and since he wanted her to be in all the operas, Haydn ended up doing quite a few replacements.   Nice disk, in any case.

And finally, his first oratorio, The Return of Tobias. On a Biblical theme, as was typical of the time (1775). He actually composed this as a membership fee to the Composer's Society in Vienna and gave it to them as a gift. They presented it a few times and actually made some nice income from it, and then it got put away. Very few recordings exist (only 2 that I know of), and the other one is in the Big Box. According to the reviews, it is probably the worst performance in the box. So this 5* performance (PI) on Naxos was a no-brainer. I will have some expanded reviews, probably after the holiday madness has diminished.

[Lilas Pastia]

Here is another list of recent acquisitions. It is a great pleasure for me to be able to get my hands on some of these disks of harder to find music.



The Hacker nocturnes are a period instrument version of the 8 nocturnes for lira organizatte, but they are NOT the original version for the King of Naples; they are the version that Haydn reorchestrated version for flute and oboe that Haydn himself did so he could take them to London in 1791. These 8 works are also available by L'Archibudelli, which are on a single disk. It is interesting to note that the overall length is 38 minutes longer on the Hacker version, which I guess must be attributed to repeats. I will be pleased when this shows up (it's in the mail still) so I can check that.

Now I understand why I couldn't recognize them in the L'archibudelli and Consortium classicum renderings (different instrumentations).  Do you mean the lire organizzate is replaced by flute and oboe? There's also a prominent clarinet part (retained in all versions ?)

I got to learn the Nocturnes through the Hacker versions on LP, but have not heard them for at least 15 years. How many versions are there ??

[Antoine Marchand]

Where did you find those Nocturnes, Gurn? 

BTW, that Oratorio on Naxos is exceptional. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Now I understand why I couldn't recognize them in the L'archibudelli and Consortium classicum renderings (different instrumentations).  Do you mean the lire organizzate is replaced by flute and oboe? There's also a prominent clarinet part (retained in all versions ?)

I got to learn the Nocturnes through the Hacker versions on LP, but have not heard them for at least 15 years. How many versions are there ??

Scoring of the Naples version: 2 lira, 2 clarinets, 2 horns, 2 violas and bass (usually cello). They were composed in 1788-89, and there were 9 of them, but only 8 survive. In 1791-92, for the first London visit, Haydn rescored at least 5 of them (27, 28, 29, 31 & 32) by removing the 2 lira and replacing them with a flute and oboe (2 flutes in #32) and 2 violins in place of the 2 clarinets. He also rewrote and strengthened the bass line by adding a separate part for a double bass.

By odd coincidence, the leaders of the 3 groups that I know that perform these works (Hacker, Neidich (with Mozzafiato joining L'Archibudelli) and Klocker, of course) are all clarinetists. Klocker wouldn't have needed to lose his clarinet in the Naples versions that they perform, but I can't imagine Hacker or Neidich doing so anyway. Anyway, that should be arriving any day now, so we'll see....




----------------
Listening to:
Marsolais (Horn) / Jalbert (Piano) - Beethoven Op 17 Sonata in F for Horn & Piano 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Gurn Blanston]

Where did you find those Nocturnes, Gurn? 

BTW, that Oratorio on Naxos is exceptional. 

Antoine,
Amazingly, they were at Amazon Marketplace, advertised as "Like new", for $15.   I've been looking at them for a long time hoping to get them for under $25!

I have read that in several places, that this is a great performance. This weekend I will find out, when I have 3 uninterrupted hours to sit and listen.



----------------
Listening to:
Marsolais (Horn) / Jalbert (Piano) - Czerny Op. Posth. Andante e Polacca for Horn & Piano 2nd mvmt - Polacca

[Antoine Marchand]

Antoine,
Amazingly, they were at Amazon Marketplace, advertised as "Like new", for $15.   I've been looking at them for a long time hoping to get them for under $25!

I have read that in several places, that this is a great performance. This weekend I will find out, when I have 3 uninterrupted hours to sit and listen.

Excellent, Gurn; I am really happy for you, great find.

BTW, it is just my idea or you also own those Nocturnes by Manfred Huss and his Vienna Haydn Sinfonietta.     

[Gurn Blanston]

Excellent, Gurn; I am really happy for you, great find.

BTW, it is just my idea or you also own those Nocturnes by Manfred Huss and his Vienna Haydn Sinfonietta. 

No, I don't have the Huss nocturnes. I didn't buy the "Music for the King of Naples etc" box because I already had all the music except those nocturnes on the original Koch/Schwann disks, and I had then 2 versions of the nocturnes, now 3 versions. I would be delighted to have them though, and if eClassical puts them out in 320kbps I will snap them up, as opposed to buying the whole box for $60 and duplicating everything else...

I DO, however, have the Huss "5 Concertos for Lira" (London Version) disk. It is splendid!



----------------
Listening to:
Marsolais (Horn) / Jalbert (Piano) - Ries Op 34 Sonata in F for Horn & Piano 1st mvmt - Larghetto

[Lilas Pastia]

Gurn reigns as Master of the Haus  .  What would we (I) do without all that fascinating background information?

I tend to delve into anecdotical detail (operatic esp.)  (or stylistic-orchestral - when it comes to Bruckner esp. ,) but am quite challenged to figure out what happened before 1790, relying on memory and intuition.  Reminds me of that fatal mistake in the movie  An American Werewolf in London where the hero ventures onto the wrong path under a full moon... 

Right now: listening to sonata 59 (Hob16:49) with Christine Schornsheim. The lady plays a Broadwood. Personally I prefer Hamelin's probing rendition (and his instrument as well). Listen to the big minor key episode in the slow movement (3 minutes in). It' arresting but perfectly integrated with Hamelin. With Schornshheim it's perfectly integrated too, but in a much more generic way. It sounds gluckian (with all that entails) with Schornsheim. Perhaps she's got a point there, but I guess it all depends on how you hear certain passages.

Emotionally, Haydn's mid-to-late sonatas bypass Mozart's emotional outpourings (being of a different generation they didn't have the same prods and outlets). They retain earlier Sturm un Drang features but hark ahead (is that a term?) to Beethoven's early sonatas, esp. 4-10. That is especially apparent when one listens  to LvB interpretations by the likes of Yves Nat, Perahia, or Brendel. 

Conclusion: there's a lot more to Haydn sonatas (and quartets) than their usual 'warm up' status im concerts would tend to indicate. Some 35 years later , I vividly remember what I thought of a Haydn work when it was programmed at the beginning of a concert  (insert the ol' 'rolling eyes' emoticon here - dammit, I want them back!!!). 

Yes Ma'am, the times they are a'changing - and that's all to the good.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn reigns as Master of the Haus  .  What would we (I) do without all that fascinating background information?

I tend to delve into anecdotical detail (operatic esp.)  (or stylistic-orchestral - when it comes to Bruckner esp. ,) but am quite challenged to figure out what happened before 1790, relying on memory and intuition.  Reminds me of that fatal mistake in the movie  An American Werewolf in London where the hero ventures onto the wrong path under a full moon... 

I think I am one of those obsessive/compulsive people when it comes to detail. Not sure how fond I am of that trait in myself but there you have it.

Right now: listening to sonata 59 (Hob16:49) with Christine Schornsheim. The lady plays a Broadwood. Personally I prefer Hamelin's probing rendition (and his instrument as well). Listen to the big minor key episode in the slow movement (3 minutes in). It' arresting but perfectly integrated with Hamelin. With Schornshheim it's perfectly integrated too, but in a much more generic way. It sounds gluckian (with all that entails) with Schornsheim. Perhaps she's got a point there, but I guess it all depends on how you hear certain passages.

Emotionally, Haydn's mid-to-late sonatas bypass Mozart's emotional outpourings (being of a different generation they didn't have the same prods and outlets). They retain earlier Sturm un Drang features but hark ahead (is that a term?) to Beethoven's early sonatas, esp. 4-10. That is especially apparent when one listens  to LvB interpretations by the likes of Yves Nat, Perahia, or Brendel. 

Conclusion: there's a lot more to Haydn sonatas (and quartets) than their usual 'warm up' status im concerts would tend to indicate. Some 35 years later , I vividly remember what I thought of a Haydn work when it was programmed at the beginning of a concert  (insert the ol' 'rolling eyes' emoticon here - dammit, I want them back!!!). 

Yes Ma'am, the times they are a'changing - and that's all to the good.

Yes, late Haydn sonatas and piano trios can be very difficult to get a handle on in terms of what the intent of the composer was. Were they really fiery and con brio? Or where they "salon-esque"? Or somewhere in between? I like Brautigam's renditions of the London sonatas, which are far more con fuego than Schornsheim's, yet when I listen to hers, she manages somehow to convince me that her approach has equal validity. This is even more true in the earlier ones, where she even got me to enjoy Haydn on the harpsichord!   There is enough substance to this music that different approaches don't do it any harm, they leave it dependent upon the essential nature of the listener to find what is right for him/herself. And really, that is the essence of Classicism; it depended on the listener to be an equal partner with  the composer and performer in appreciating the music. Something that got lost in the eras that followed.

PS - Lilas, go to your profile and select the "Classic" smiley set. You will get back all your favorites, even this one




----------------
Listening to:
Marsolais (Horn) / Jalbert (Piano) - Moscheles WoO Theme & Variations on an Album Leaf by Rossini

[snyprrr]

The Auryn Qt has no Viennese roots whatsoever. I believe two of its members are from northern Germany, and two from Britain. In their training they haven't been particularly Vienna-oriented either.

I thought you knew I meant Viennese figuratively!

[snyprrr]

The Alberni Quartet Op.76 (Collins Classics):



A day after my big "epiphany",...ha!... the Alberni arrived, a 1990 recording that comes with a dynamic warning,... oh goody! Perhaps there is a soul out there who remembers the handsome,...er,hmmm...slip case for the box. All I can say is, it's very late-'80s pastels, very precious.

So, what does this semi-forgotten (I seem to recall Britten on CRD) band sound like? I have been so caught up in the ultra polished sound of those other two, that I might have been unconsciously prejudging the Albernis. I looked inside the booklet. Original Instruments have their own credits!!! Is this going to be HIP??? Oh, the,...



ok, it's like this. The Albernis appear to play just as well as both the Auryn and the ABQ (yes, I just noticed all the "A"s, too, haha). The inhabit a world at once a beautiful compromise between the Auryn and the ABQ (many of eithers' strengths, without their weaknesses), and then also with an added inspired touch of their own, with a gentle playfulness that is different than the Auryns. Added on to this the sound of the,...trumpets please!... Original Instruments

Strad 'The Maurin', Cremona 1718
Ruggieri, Cremona 1695
Maggini, Brecia c1600
Grancino, Milan 1706

which, as evidenced here, are a pure delight in their mellowness and the warm fuzzy hazy buzz they give off is charming to my ears. I take it then that the Alberni are NOT trying to HIP the thing, I mean, they seem to play the things very similarly to both of the traditionally modern groups. I don't know what you call this back in 1990. I mean, the Lindsays also play on supposedly GreatOldInstruments, and yet that doesn't give them any street cred with the HIPsters (you ain't down!, you ain't down!). The Albernis' "buzz" seems to indicate to me gut strings. What else produces THAT sound?

Anyhow, the Albernis HAVE a "sound",... and...I like it. I would love for someone to talk to me about this because it is a little confusing. The "effect" the Albernis produce makes me think HIP, but the playing is so natural that I hear the music as natural, and not HIP per se, but at the same time there appears to me an indescribable, old fashioned feel to the sound texture, though the playing has no exaggerations in the HIP sense. So, is there a name for this kind of interpretation, or is it just an honest interpretaion on old instruments? Plus, the recording lends a real cozy, homey feel that takes the whole effect over the roof. It really grows on you.

The cello is most graciously enveloped here than in the other two versions, I thought. Especially in the ABQ, the cellist was very POW!!! in the recording, but here, perhaps again it is the strings, but the cellist is perfectly cast.

I would compare the Albernis more with the feminine Auryn rather than with the masculine ABQ, but even here we have felicities. Though the Auryn probably catch more humorous moments, the Alberni also bring out many touches in an individual way. Ultimately, all three groups have a very very similar approach, which is to place a premium on beauty of tone. The Albernis string sound is totally different, but the playing is the same, to a degree.

The Albernis appear mellow, but they are rhythmically alert, so it appears that you are in a way getting the best of both worlds here. I'm afraid this is ust making me want to get something completely different here, like the Tatrai. I just want to hear a completely different way of playing.

The BOTTOM LINE is that the Albernis are quite a classy bunch. Intonation, ensemble, unique sound and personality, are all in attendence. They have an especially unique sound that I find quite appealing, a certain tinge of authenticity that brings so much charm to the table. Very surprised and pleased.

The Albernis appear to have been the Lindsays from across town. Their leader, Howard Davis, apparently a great teacher, died in 2008. They continue on, having had I believe the same line-up since 1961 (I could be wrong)! Rawsthorne wrote his No.3 for them!

Good show for the Alberni Quartet!

So, I don't know what to make of the "concept" here: Original Instruments with natural playing. It sounds HIP, it doesn't sound HIP. But I like it.

[Que]

Well, presuming HIP would have to sound "unnatural" and with "exeggerations", and without a "warm, fuzzy hazy buzz" would be missing the point - entirely. IMHO. 0:)

Q

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, presuming HIP would have to sound "unnatural" and with "exaggerations", and without a "warm, fuzzy hazy buzz" would be missing the point - entirely. IMHO. 0:)

Q

Kinda sorta makes you wonder who's been whispering in his ear, dunnit? 

[Antoine Marchand]

Kinda sorta makes you wonder who's been whispering in his ear, dunnit? 

Sometimes you make me use my Urban Dictionary, Gurn. 

[jlaurson]

Sometimes you make me use my Urban Dictionary, Gurn. 

Yeah... Slangmeister Blanston in da House!

[snyprrr]

Well, presuming HIP would have to sound "unnatural" and with "exeggerations", and without a "warm, fuzzy hazy buzz" would be missing the point - entirely. IMHO. 0:)

Q

Kinda sorta makes you wonder who's been whispering in his ear, dunnit? 

But...so...uh...are the Alberni being HIP here?

I mean, I'm not bashing, just asking. They "sound" like a "normal" (get the lawyer) group, with judicious vibrato and everything. Does their instrumental sound make them HIP here, or, are they just "normies" who decided to play Original Instruments because they were available?

All I'm saying is, the Alberni don't sound like Fabio Biondi's group, that's for sure, but they doooo appropriate the "sound" of the KittyKat strings, so, I'm just asking what kind of category are they in? They sound like the Salomon, but play like the ABQ. How does this compare with what the Buchbergers are doing (maybe not a good question)?

You guys!

Yeah... Slangmeister Blanston in da House!

Woot woot!

[Gurn Blanston]

Sometimes you make me use my Urban Dictionary, Gurn. 

Oh, sorry, been talking with my Brit friends. Damn, they're worse than us Texans.  (dunnit? = doesn't it?)





----------------
Listening to:
Hans Ludwig Hirsch - Hob 16 21 Sonata in C for Keyboard 1st mvmt - Allegro