Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Coincidently my discs ordered from Abeille Musique arrived between the last Friday and today in 2 packages, although I have yet not listened to the Cerasi's disc.

Yes, it only was released the other day. I was wondering if, in fact, yours was a pre-release sale. Seems it was, since they shipped it just when mine did. Looking forward to it. And as for the Staier, well, it has been available for $45 in a couple of places (used), which is the same price as the 3 disk box from Japan. Hated that since I already had 2 of them...

[Antoine Marchand]

Yes, it only was released the other day. I was wondering if, in fact, yours was a pre-release sale. Seems it was, since they shipped it just when mine did.

Not really. My second package was sent by Abeille Musique on February 15, but it arrived just the last Friday, three days before the first package sent on February 3, which just arrived today (both of them by regular mail and, read my lips, without taxes!  ).   

[DarkAngel]

And as for the Staier, well, it has been available for $45 in a couple of places (used), which is the same price as the 3 disk box from Japan. Hated that since I already had 2 of them

If anyone needs all three Staier CDs (they are wonderful performances) best price appears to be boxset from MDT for $27

[Antoine Marchand]

If anyone needs all three Staier CDs (they are wonderful performances) best price appears to be boxset from MDT for $27

AMAZON: $19.98.-

[DarkAngel]

AMAZON: $19.98.-

WOW.....three Amazon sellers have it for under $12 new, that's a great deal

[Gurn Blanston]

WOW.....three Amazon sellers have it for under $12 new, that's a great deal

Darn right it is. Last time I checked (2-3 months ago) it was $45. You might know that now that I have finally completed my set, they are giving this one away...   Haydn fans should get it.

[SonicMan46]

If anyone needs all three Staier CDs (they are wonderful performances) best price appears to be boxset from MDT for $27 - EDIT - Amazon MP for $12 - 3 dics!

Guys - OK, I like Staier but currently own 3 'box sets' of Haydn's Piano Sonatas - what is on these 3 discs and do they include material different from the other sonatas that I already own (I think the answer will be 'yes & no') - BUT for that price, I'll BUY IN!  Thanks for any info - Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Not really. My second package was sent by Abeille Musique on February 15, but it arrived just the last Friday, three days before the first package sent on February 3, which just arrived today (both of them by regular mail and, read my lips, without taxes!  ).

Ah, well it pays to be patient.   The release date in North America was March 9th, last Tuesday. Even then, no one had it for a few days. So, now we shall see.

[Gurn Blanston]

Guys - OK, I like Staier but currently own 3 'box sets' of Haydn's Piano Sonatas - what is on these 3 discs and do they include material different from the other sonatas that I already own (I think the answer will be 'yes & no') - BUT for that price, I'll BUY IN!  Thanks for any info - Dave

Dave, well since your other sets are already complete, there is certainly nothing you don't have. What they are is a good sampling of all different periods. All on fortepiano. Mainly what you will get different is the personality of the player. I am quite keen on Staier so that's good enough for me.    You're right, for $12/3disks, this can't be missed!

[SonicMan46]

Dave, well since your other sets are already complete, there is certainly nothing you don't have. What they are is a good sampling of all different periods. All on fortepiano. Mainly what you will get different is the personality of the player. I am quite keen on Staier so that's good enough for me.    You're right, for $12/3disks, this can't be missed!

Evening Gurn -    Thanks for the info - will add to my 'too buy' list!  Pretty much equal to the tip I left at our local mountain bistro last night after taking Susan to the Chris Thile concert - FAB DEAL!  Dave 

[Franco]

Well shucks, I have been a bit distracted lately and neglected to check this thread for a couple of weeks, and there you go - I missed one of my favorite things: another argument on modern vs. fortepiano for Haydn, et al.

I once was a barking mad anti-fortepiano-ite, but alas, while I still place myself mostly in the modern instrument camp I now understand the issues involved and why some prefer  period instruments and have acquired a nice stack of PI recordings which I do enjoy.

So, the argument has been very worthwhile for me and I thank all those who politely presented the PI view with intelligence and wit and maybe one day ukrneal will also learn to enjoy Haydn on fortepiano.

[Florestan]

Yes. Evenings at the Florestan household for some piano and singing were incredibly commonplace.

"Oh, Fanny Florestan has a new sonata that Haydn wrote for her. Let's drop in for it and some punch tomorrow...".   

Totally right. Even in the theaters the people was not quiet during the performances. I recall a Mozart's letter where he said that he was waiting the public's reaction (shouts and applause) during certain passages of a symphony in Paris. 

Well, if this is so, then I draw the following conclusions:

1. Being, as they were, written either for Eszterhazy himself or for Haydn's friends, the sonatas do not contain any arcane symbolism or esoteric profundity, are intended more (or solely) for entertainment than for musical rapture and ecstasy --- and as such, there is no need for concentrated (stiff and still) listening. This already makes the choice between fortepiano or modern piano less dramatic.

2. Being intended for a small audience in a small room of the eighteenth century, then this is the best way to experience them: played live, in a congenial and social atmosphere, with witty conversations, candle lights and champagne / punch / wine / whatever.

3. I guess that the sound of fortepiano is very different in the above conditions than in a recorded CD. Perhaps the furnitures and the draperies of Esterhazy's salon created a unique acoustics that is very difficult, if not down right impossible, to reproduce in a recording studio. And perhaps the live sound of fortepiano in rooms fitted for its acoustics is different than in studio recordings.

Just my two cents.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well shucks, I have been a bit distracted lately and neglected to check this thread for a couple of weeks, and there you go - I missed one of my favorite things: another argument on modern vs. fortepiano for Haydn, et al.

I once was a barking mad anti-fortepiano-ite, but alas, while I still place myself mostly in the modern instrument camp I now understand the issues involved and why some prefer  period instruments and have acquired a nice stack of PI recordings which I do enjoy.

So, the argument has been very worthwhile for me and I thank all those who politely presented the PI view with intelligence and wit and maybe one day ukrneal will also learn to enjoy the Haydn on fortepiano.

Yes, been a while since you stopped by, Franco. See what you missed?    I'm afraid that this is a controversy that will go on well past my lifetime, but continuing to chip away, one non-believer at a time, is the only way to make a mark.

If it's OK for me to say, I definitely prefer the modern piano for anything composed after, oh, 1850 or so.   Not like I would never listen to it.   

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, if this is so, then I draw the following conclusions:

1. Being, as they were, written either for Eszterhazy himself or for Haydn's friends, the sonatas do not contain any arcane symbolism or esoteric profundity, are intended more (or solely) for entertainment than for musical rapture and ecstasy --- and as such, there is no need for concentrated (stiff and still) listening. This already makes the choice between fortepiano or modern piano less dramatic.

2. Being intended for a small audience in a small room of the eighteenth century, then this is the best way to experience them: played live, in a congenial and social atmosphere, with witty conversations, candle lights and champagne / punch / wine / whatever.

3. I guess that the sound of fortepiano is very different in the above conditions than in a recorded CD. Perhaps the furnitures and the draperies of Esterhazy's salon created a unique acoustics that is very difficult, if not down right impossible, to reproduce in a recording studio. And perhaps the live sound of fortepiano in rooms fitted for its acoustics is different than in studio recordings.

Just my two cents.

Nothing in there that will get any argument from me. The picture created is completely congruent with what I have read of the time (which is a lot!).

1. Being, as they were, written either for Eszterhazy himself or for Haydn's friends, the sonatas do not contain any arcane symbolism or esoteric profundity, are intended more (or solely) for entertainment than for musical rapture and ecstasy --- and as such, there is no need for concentrated (stiff and still) listening.

This is exactly the point that I have been trying to make all along, especially in the Haydn String Quartet thread, and due to my near-inarticulate communication skills, I was not making an inroad into it. Even the bigger things, like the symphonies, can be viewed in this way. The only exceptions will be the sacred music and possibly the operas, depending on the occasion. Music din't become stiff, formal and lifeless until the Canon of Great Music came into being in the mid-19th century. Before then, it was fun, dammit.

[Opus106]

Well, if this is so, then I draw the following conclusions:

1. Being, as they were, written either for Eszterhazy himself or for Haydn's friends, the sonatas do not contain any arcane symbolism or esoteric profundity, are intended more (or solely) for entertainment than for musical rapture and ecstasy --- and as such, there is no need for concentrated (stiff and still) listening. This already makes the choice between fortepiano or modern piano less dramatic.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Maybe -- maybe -- profundity is available to those who look for them. Haydn could have followed the "What You Hear/Listen For Is What You Get" rule. But then, the mere existence of profundity to one listener need not necessarily imply intention. [To be abetted by facts, theories and hypotheses, later by Gurn. ]

By the way, with this particular conclusion, you seem to undermine the intellectual capacities of Haydn's friends. (Kings and Emperors were and are foolish, anyway. )

[DavidRoss]

Perhaps the furnitures and the draperies of Esterhazy's salon created a unique acoustics that is very difficult, if not down right impossible, to reproduce in a recording studio. And perhaps the live sound of fortepiano in rooms fitted for its acoustics is different than in studio recordings.

"Darling, would you please be so kind as to ask the maid to change the tapestries and rugs in the music room?  I feel like hearing a period instrument recording of a Haydn keyboard piece on fortepiano."

[Florestan]

Music din't become stiff, formal and lifeless until the Canon of Great Music came into being in the mid-19th century. Before then, it was fun, dammit.

I can't think of any work included in "The Canon of Great Music" that fits your description. However, I concede that the way of experiencing music has changed --- and not always for better. 

with this particular conclusion, you seem to undermine the intellectual capacities of Haydn's friends. (Kings and Emperors were and are foolish, anyway. )

No (and no  ). It's just that back in Haydn's time music was no substitute for philosophy or science and was not supposed to contain or describe the mysteries of the Universe and Man. It was, as your hero put it: An agreeable harmony for the honour of God and the permissible delights of the soul.

"Darling, would you please be so kind as to ask the maid to change the tapestries and rugs in the music room?  I feel like hearing a period instrument recording of a Haydn keyboard piece on fortepiano."

Ha ha, exactly 

[Gurn Blanston]

I can't think of any work included in "The Canon of Great Music" that fits your description. However, I concede that the way of experiencing music has changed --- and not always for better. 

Not the music, amigo, the audience. Hearing the music used to be fun, let's put it that way. Still is at MY house with air conducting, air piano, dancing, singing etc. I am a firm believer in "music should be fun".

[Florestan]

Not the music, amigo, the audience. Hearing the music used to be fun, let's put it that way. Still is at MY house with air conducting, air piano, dancing, singing etc. I am a firm believer in "music should be fun".

Ah, yes, completely agreed when you put it this way. I have a very idiomatic way of conducting Haydn...

[Opus106]

Not the music, amigo, the audience. Hearing the music used to be fun, let's put it that way. Still is at MY house with air conducting, air piano, dancing, singing etc. I am a firm believer in "music should be fun".

Hopefully not the air-yawning I witnessed at a recital earlier this evening (not a fault of the pianist, mind you).