Haydn's Haus

[Mandryka]

1) I love Kuijken's recordings, with either of his orchestras.  I find he has a sensuous approach that brings out the variety in Haydn's music.  He let's it breathe.

Yes, sensuous is the word. And he's very well recorded.

But sometimes I think he's too tame. I just listened to 88 with Kuijken and with Scherchen. Scherchen is much more successful at bringing out the maverick genius side of the music.

Scherchen's a bit of a troublemaker though. You're in much safer hands with Kuijken .

4) I really like a number of conductors doing these works, including . . . Klemperer . . .

Really? For me most of them seemed totally turgid (I enjoyed one of them -- 102 maybe. I'll check.)

4) . . . Dorati (spirited).

I am very tempted by the Dorati recording with the Festival Chamber Orchestra here:

http://www.rediscovery.us/conductors.html

Has anyone heard it?

5) Off-topic - I got Jacobs' version of The Creation for Christmas.  Totally unimpressed.  Excellent work by the soloists ruined by an abysmal, pedantic conducting approach.  I expect many here will disagree.

I don't know it -- but Jacobs playing Symphony 91 is one of my favourite CDs. He's great at buffo

[mc ukrneal]

Yes, sensuous is the word. And he's very well recorded.

Sensuous? I was just thinking that is the opposite of how I would describe him. Stark and cold are more like it. Amazing that we hear such different things (keeping oin mind I only have 82-88 or so).

[starrynight]

I think Fischer is overpraised.  It's not that he is bad, but I don't think I discovered any more Haydn symphonies that I liked under Fischer than I had already discovered under Dorati (and he was the pioneer from much earlier).

However with others such as Bruggen, Harnoncourt, Frey, Pinnock, Hogwood and Weil for example I have discovered several others that I have liked.

[Sergeant Rock]

Really? For me most of them seemed totally turgid (I enjoyed one of them -- 102 maybe. I'll check.)

I'm wth cosmicj...I love Klemperer's Haydn (and Mozart). His ability to bring out inner detail and his emphasis on rhythm, even when the tempo is slow, prevents his Haydn from sounding turgid to my ears. Szell, Klemp, Norrington remain my favorites in the late symphonies. The HIPsters have not knocked out my top three yet although I am enjoying the new Minkowski box of Londons. In the middle and early symphonies I have a greater appreciation, even a preference for Goodman, Solomons, Pinnock, Brüggen, Weil, Hogwood...

Sarge

[Scarpia]

I'm wth cosmicj...I love Klemperer's Haydn (and Mozart). His ability to bring out inner detail and his emphasis on rhythm, even when the tempo is slow, prevents his Haydn from sounding turgid to my ears. Szell, Klemp, Norrington remain my favorites in the late symphonies. The HIPsters have not knocked out my top three yet although I am enjoying the new Minkowski box of Londons. In the middle and early symphonies I have a greater appreciation, even a preference for Goodman, Solomons, Pinnock, Brüggen, Weil, Hogwood...

Sarge

Heard Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw?

[Sergeant Rock]

Heard Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw?

Only 68 and 100. But I have some recordings with the Concentus Musicus Wien and really love them. I should have included him in the list in my previous post. Here's what I have (copy and pasted from my data base):

HAYDN   ARMIDA   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   HARMONIEMESSE   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   MISSA IN ANGUSTIIS "NELSONMESSE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   MISSA IN TEMPORE BELLI "PAUKENMESSE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   TE DEUM HOB XXIIIC:2   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   TE DEUM HOB.XXIIIC:1   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   CANTATA "QAUL DUBBIO ORMAI"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SALVE REGINA   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #6 D MAJOR "LE MATIN"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #7 C MAJOR "LE MIDI"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #8 G MAJOR "LA SOIR"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #30 C MAJOR "ALLELUJA"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #53 D MAJOR "L'IMPÉRIALE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #68 B MAJOR   HARNONCOURT   CONCERTGEBOUW
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #69 C MAJOR "LOUDON"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #82 C MAJOR "L'OURS" (BEAR)   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #83 G MINOR "LA POULE" (HEN)   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #84 E FLAT   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #85 B FLAT "LA REINE DE FRANCE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #86 D MAJOR   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #87 A MAJOR   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #100 G MAJOR "MILITARY"   HARNONCOURT   CONCERTGEBOUW


Sarge

[Scarpia]

Only 68 and 100. But I have some recordings with the Concentus Musicus Wien and really love them. I should have included him in the list in my previous post. Here's what I have (copy and pasted from my data base):

HAYDN   ARMIDA   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   HARMONIEMESSE   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   MISSA IN ANGUSTIIS "NELSONMESSE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   MISSA IN TEMPORE BELLI "PAUKENMESSE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   TE DEUM HOB XXIIIC:2   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   TE DEUM HOB.XXIIIC:1   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   CANTATA "QAUL DUBBIO ORMAI"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SALVE REGINA   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #6 D MAJOR "LE MATIN"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #7 C MAJOR "LE MIDI"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #8 G MAJOR "LA SOIR"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #30 C MAJOR "ALLELUJA"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #53 D MAJOR "L'IMPÉRIALE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #68 B MAJOR   HARNONCOURT   CONCERTGEBOUW
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #69 C MAJOR "LOUDON"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #82 C MAJOR "L'OURS" (BEAR)   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #83 G MINOR "LA POULE" (HEN)   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #84 E FLAT   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #85 B FLAT "LA REINE DE FRANCE"   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #86 D MAJOR   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #87 A MAJOR   HARNONCOURT   CON MUSICUS WIEN
HAYDN   SYMPHONY #100 G MAJOR "MILITARY"   HARNONCOURT   CONCERTGEBOUW


Sarge

It beckons:



http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//2564696122.htm

[Mandryka]

Sensuous? I was just thinking that is the opposite of how I would describe him. Stark and cold are more like it. Amazing that we hear such different things (keeping oin mind I only have 82-88 or so).

Right -- I was thinking of 88 to 90something.

Sensuous because of the sound quality -- and the clarity. But I don't hear cold. But not warm neither (either?)

[Mandryka]

I'm wth cosmicj...I love Klemperer's Haydn (and Mozart). His ability to bring out inner detail and his emphasis on rhythm, even when the tempo is slow, prevents his Haydn from sounding turgid to my ears. Szell, Klemp, Norrington remain my favorites in the late symphonies. The HIPsters have not knocked out my top three yet although I am enjoying the new Minkowski box of Londons. In the middle and early symphonies I have a greater appreciation, even a preference for Goodman, Solomons, Pinnock, Brüggen, Weil, Hogwood...

Sarge

I like Klemperer's Mozart, quite. ANd I like Brueggen and Solomons too.

There is a sort of semi-hip -- between the extremes of  Beecham (whom I really don't like at all)  and Norrington (who may well grow on me) -- which I am most interested in. Names like Goberman, Haas, Solomons, Blum, Woldike, Busch, Van Beinem, Rosbaud, Jones, Scherchen, Otterloo.

Tell me, Sarge. have you hear Norrington's new set of Londons?

[Sergeant Rock]

It beckons:

Tempting, very tempting. But can I justify a third box of Londons within the space of a couple of months? Only if Mrs. Rock doesn't find out 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Tell me, Sarge. have you hear Norrington's new set of Londons?

Yes, I bought the box. I've talked about it in the Listening thread and in this thread too. I think this link will take you to where my conversation started with Horn Teacher:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11942.msg410075.html#msg410075

Sarge

[Scarpia]

Tempting, very tempting. But can I justify a third box of Londons within the space of a couple of months? Only if Mrs. Rock doesn't find out 

Sarge

I hope those other two boxes are similar in size, because you'll be using them to prop up your CD shelves when you have the Harnoncourt set.   

[Mandryka]

Yes, I bought the box. I've talked about it in the Listening thread and in this thread too. I think this link will take you to where my conversation started with Horn Teacher:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11942.msg410075.html#msg410075

Sarge

Thanks. Re Harnoncourt there is a very good Oxford Symphony on DVD here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cecilia-Bartoli-Nikolaus-Harnoncourt-Haydn/dp/B00008JL72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1275775475&sr=1-1

It is maybe my favourite Haydn/Harnoncourt symphony. And maybe my favourite Oxford full stop.

[Scarpia]

Thanks. Re Harnoncourt there is a very good Oxford Symphony on DVD here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cecilia-Bartoli-Nikolaus-Harnoncourt-Haydn/dp/B00008JL72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1275775475&sr=1-1

It is maybe my favourite Haydn/Harnoncourt symphony. And maybe my favourite Oxford full stop.

And Bartoli is awesome in the concert arias, but maybe I am remembering a similar DVD with Mozart Sym. 38 instead of Haydn.

[DavidW]

Tempting, very tempting. But can I justify a third box of Londons within the space of a couple of months? Only if Mrs. Rock doesn't find out 

Sarge

Very dull imo.  He is on autopilot the whole time.

[not edward]

Scherchen's a bit of a troublemaker though.

That's why it took Scherchen to get me to finally click with the Haydn symphonies.

To my mind, Haydn himself was quite the musical troublemaker himself, and I've heard too many performances over the years that understate that aspect of his music.

[Mandryka]

To my mind, Haydn himself was quite the musical troublemaker himself, and I've heard too many performances over the years that understate that aspect of his music.

Quoted because it's true.

Very few other conductors capture this -- Rosbaud, Van Beinem and Munch to some extent, maybe.

And even Scherchen sometimes understates this side of the music. In 104, for example.

By the way, if you enjoy that side of Haydn, try to hear Deszo Ranki playing the  piano sonatas (you may know them already of course . . )

[SonicMan46]

Quoted below is a post I left in the 'listening thread' that is already buried, as usual; so, just wanted to put this recent (i.e. 2008) recording of the London Symphonies w/ Shelley on the Hyperion label - offered at a bargain price!  Just finished listening to this set and was impressed - kind of a 'hybrid' approach that works well in modern sonics that will be enjoyed by many - although I own a number of interpretations of these compositions, this set might be one to recommend to a 'novice' wanting an introduction to Papa Haydn - I would be curious on thoughts from others that may have heard these discs?  Dave 

Well, I did not need another 'modern' version of these works, BUT the bargain BRO set below at $20 for 4 discs was hearkening to me, so what the hey - 

Haydn, Joseph - London Symphonies w/ Howard Shelley & the Orch della Svizzera Italiana from 2008 - superb sound recording by Hyperion; these are w/ modern instruments but apparently 'period' practices, i.e. smaller group (esp. in the winds), faster tempos, some but less string vibrato, hard sticks on the tympani, etc.  I still need a good 'period instrument' performance, but this is an enjoyable set!   For those wanting more detail, check out the MusicWeb Review HERE! 

[DarkAngel]

This just recently arrived, 4 CD set in cardboard clamshell with nice booklet. Live performances with no trace of crowd noise intrusion.

These are very very good but not quite amazing or revolutionary, I was expecting a more individual flambouyant performance from Minkowski......instead we get very good HIP hybrid style with fleet lifted clarified textures with great sound, yet something is missing to keep it from being a reference performance for these works, although it is close to the best. I already have large number of sets and will gladly add this to my collection

[Opus106]

HIP hybrid?