Haydn's Haus

[FideLeo]

FT - that picture broght back some memories - check out THIS POST from the old forum - different pic but a link to the same website. 

Ah yes I saw your post about the Consortium Classicum recording of the noctures in reference to the lyra organizzata.  I believe the new Coin disc also includes one or two noctures for the King of Naples.  The Mozzafiata/L'archibudelli recording, however, features a duo of flute (Marten Root - yeah!) and oboe in place of the lyres but does so following arrangements made by Haydn himself.  Don't remember whether any transposition was required in the arrangements.   

[val]

Regarding Coin, I am listening a superb version of the piano Trios 35, 36 and 37, with Höbarth and Patrick Cohen. In this three works they are better than the Beaux Arts Trio.

[FideLeo]

Regarding Coin, I am listening a superb version of the piano Trios 35, 36 and 37, with Höbarth and Patrick Cohen. In this three works they are better than the Beaux Arts Trio.

I don't think they have done much more beyond this really.  A pity.  The disc with Jerome Hantai, Philippe Couvert and Alix Verzier doing 36, 37, 40 makes a good second recording for these pieces, though, even with the duplications.

[val]

fl.traverso

I don't think they have done much more beyond this really.  A pity.  The disc with Jerome Hantai, Philippe Couvert and Alix Verzier doing 36, 37, 40 makes a good second recording for these pieces, though, even with the duplications.

Cohen, Höbarth and Coin also recorded the Trios 25 to 27. I never could find that CD (the 27 is a masterpiece and I would love to hear an alternative version of the Beaux Arts Trio).

[FideLeo]

Cohen, Höbarth and Coin also recorded the Trios 25 to 27. I never could find that CD (the 27 is a masterpiece and I would love to hear an alternative version of the Beaux Arts Trio).

Right.  I think I must have confused that album with the one of trios 28-30 in which a traverso (hey hey) replaces the violin.  Cohen and Coin play with Konrad Hünteler here.

[lukeottevanger]

Hmm... I have a question. I just recently picked up 5 Haydn Piano Sonatas performed by Richter, and I just noticed Hob. XVI:40 has an uncanny resemblance to a melody Schumann used in his Papillons, Op. 2. This is a melody that I assumed was original, but this is so close I am wondering if Schumann quoted him. I am aware Schumann studied Haydn's music rather closely. Is anyone aware if this is true, and perhaps common knowledge for what I am just now discovering? This is quite a revelation for me.

Could you be more specific about which melodies you are finding similar?

[Israfel the Black]

The main melody of the Haydn sonata, it starts right at the beginning of the piece and plays throughout the first movement. In Schumann's Papillons, Op. 2, it starts toward the end of the work. It's at 11:15 in the Wilhem Kempff recording (13:14 total). The melodies are nearly identical.

[lukeottevanger]

I thought you might have meant these two melodies. No, Schumann doesn't take it from Haydn; they are similar in type and in shape (sturdy little diatonic major tunes in triple time, the first phrase ending with a rising figure and a repeated note) but are not the same tune in most particulars. However, more important than that as a determining factor is the fact that actually Schumann is quoting a different melody entirely here: the 'Grossvater Tanz', which is a famous little seventeenth century German tune which was (I think) used on formal ocassions, hence Schumann quoting it here, at the end of his imaginary night of waltzing! He also quotes it, more cryptically, in one of the pieces from the Album for the Young (can't remember which, might be one of the Wintertime ones, one which moves from C minor to C major); Tchaikovsky quotes it in Act I of The Nutcracker too, for the presentation of the older guests.

[George]

Count me in, gentlemen!

BTW, how does the Brilliant set compare to this one?

Could I ask the above question again for those who have ordered and recieved their Brilliant box?

I like my Haydn with mucho zest and playfulness. And I only want one box - for now. 

[Lethevich]

We've had a lot of discussion about Haydn's obscure chamber music on the last two incarnations of the forum, but was wondering whether anyone could clue me in on his choral music.

Outside of the masses and oratorios, are there any recommendations for good recordings of his smaller pieces, eg motets such as Salve Regina etc? preferably a nice disc full of them rather than filler, but either is good. I guess the Stabat Mater isn't very well-known, but it's a substantial work and has had several recordings at least.

[SonicMan46]

Could I ask the above question again for those who have ordered and recieved their Brilliant box?

I like my Haydn with mucho zest and playfulness. And I only want one box - for now. 

Hello George - Q & I made some comments on the Brilliant set back on pages 2 & 3 of this thread - but I can't give you a 'blow for blow' comparsion w/ the Borodins (don't have them in Haydn's Piano Trios) - but for the money, the HIP performances, and the outstanding sound, the Brilliant box is hard to beat (I have the Borodins in many other trios and would imagine that I'd enjoy their performances w/ the Haydn works) - good luck in your selection!   

[Bogey]

Hello George - Q & I made some comments on the Brilliant set back on pages 2 & 3 of this thread - but I can't give you a 'blow for blow' comparsion w/ the Borodins (don't have them in Haydn's Piano Trios) - but for the money, the HIP performances, and the outstanding sound, the Brilliant box is hard to beat (I have the Borodins in many other trios and would imagine that I'd enjoy their performances w/ the Haydn works) - good luck in your selection!   

Dave,
We both ended up going for the BAT set.  My wife and I just love it!

[SonicMan46]

Dave,
We both ended up going for the BAT set.  My wife and I just love it!

Hello, Bill - just noticed that you're now a Veteran!     Congrats - 

As mentioned, I love the BAT, and would be perfectly happy w/ that set (like George not sure I needed a duplicate box) - use to have just a couple of CDs of those trios (Coin was one mentioned in a post above) - but for those 'still sitting on the fence', either of these box sets should please; but if one insists on HIP performances, the Brilliant box is certainly an excellent choice - 

[Bogey]

Might anyone here be able generate a list of Haydn's masses that I can use as a check-list or direct me to a site that already did this?  Thanks!

[Gurn Blanston]

Name     Key     Hoboken No.     Year     Specifics
Missa Brevis    F    XXII:1    1749    
Missa 'Sunt Bonta Mixta Malis'    d    XXII:2    1767-69    lost
Missa 'Rorate coeli desuper'    G    XXII:3         
Missa in Honorem Beatae Mariae Virginiae (Grosse Orgelmesse)    E flat    XXII:4    1774    
Missa Cellensis in Honorem BMV (Nicolaimesse)    G    XXII:6         nickname: 6/4 Takt Messe
Missa Brevis sancti Joannis de Deo (Kleine Orgelmesse)    B flat    XXII:7    1778    
Missa cellensis (Mariazeller Messe)    C    XXII:8    1782    
Missa in tempore belli (Kriegsmesse / Paukenmesse)    C    XXII:9    1796    
Missa sancti Bernardi von Offida (Heiligmesse)    B flat    XXII:10    1796    
Missa (Kronungsmesse / Imperial Mass / Nelsonmesse / Missa in angustiis)    d    XXII:11    1798    
Missa (Theresienmesse)    B flat    XXII:12    1799    
Missa (Schopfungsmesse)    B flat    XXII:13    1801    
Missa (Harmoniemesse)    B flat    XXII:14    1802

Bill,
If you can navigate the format jungle, here you go. The column headings at the top hold true down the page, they just don't line up in plain text format, they were a table...

[Bogey]

Thank you very much Gurn....just what I wanted.

[Gabriel]

Gurn: remember that Hob. XXII:2 (Missa 'Sunt bona mixta malis') was discovered in fragmentary state and there is a recording in Chandos of the Kyrie and the Gloria (in the excellent series conducted by Richard Hickox).

Just to complete the information...

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn: remember that Hob. XXII:2 (Missa 'Sunt bona mixta malis') was discovered in fragmentary state and there is a recording in Chandos of the Kyrie and the Gloria (in the excellent series conducted by Richard Hickox).

Just to complete the information...

Gabriel,
Thanks for that. No, I didn't ever know that. Hoboken (according to New Grove) says there are over 100 other masses attributed to Haydn 

I like Hickox though, so I'll see what I can find.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel,
Thanks for that. No, I didn't ever know that. Hoboken (according to New Grove) says there are over 100 other masses attributed to Haydn 

I like Hickox though, so I'll see what I can find.

His Haydn recordings are very good, as well as the Hummel masses he's also recording in Chandos/Chaconne. In fact, I saw a couple of months ago a box with all his Haydn masses, in a very convenient price; but as I had bought some of the recordings before, I left the box on the shelf. It's a great opportunity to be considered by those who want to explore these works.

[Gurn Blanston]

His Haydn recordings are very good, as well as the Hummel masses he's also recording in Chandos/Chaconne. In fact, I saw a couple of months ago a box with all his Haydn masses, in a very convenient price; but as I had bought some of the recordings before, I left the box on the shelf. It's a great opportunity to be considered by those who want to explore these works.

A couple disks I have of his London Symphonies are very good also. Hope he does more, and earlier, ones too.

I have this one:


But I am guessing that you are talking about this one:


And a bargain at Amazon!