Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

jlaursen: Yup, sometimes the glass really is half-full!

Speaking of symphonies, I've had delighted listens to ##52 and 53 (Imperial) recently, Fischer's renditions. And I finally plunked for the Bis reissue of the divertimenti. Anyone care to comment on this set?

I think it's brilliant. See my review at Amazon. The bulk of these works were recorded several years ago for Koch/Schwann, and when they did whatever they do, BIS bought the tapes, and combined them with some newly recorded works to make a great box set. Mainly it consists in all the authenticated works from Hoboken II (which is "divertimenti for 4 or more instruments without keyboard"). Between this box and the similar one of music for the King of Naples and Esterhazy, you really get to hear the off-the-beaten-path works of Haydn. This is soooo much better than another set of London Symphonies...

[chasmaniac]

I think it's brilliant. See my review at Amazon. The bulk of these works were recorded several years ago for Koch/Schwann, and when they did whatever they do, BIS bought the tapes, and combined them with some newly recorded works to make a great box set. Mainly it consists in all the authenticated works from Hoboken II (which is "divertimenti for 4 or more instruments without keyboard"). Between this box and the similar one of music for the King of Naples and Esterhazy, you really get to hear the off-the-beaten-path works of Haydn. This is soooo much better than another set of London Symphonies...

Good to hear. I have the Naples and Overtures sets on Bis. I'm curious though whether this set includes early string quartets in larger orchestrations. Weren't those labelled "divertimenti" too?

[Gurn Blanston]

Good to hear. I have the Naples and Overtures sets on Bis. I'm curious though whether this set includes early string quartets in larger orchestrations. Weren't those labelled "divertimenti" too?

Yes, those were Hob II:22 & 23. The original orchestration, played here, is string quartet + 2 Horns. The horn parts were simply excised by some early publishers in order to fill out the Op 1 & 2 sets. Along those same lines, those sets were also padded out with what are now recognized as Hob I:107 & 108, called Symphony "A" and Symphony "B". In order to make those 2 opera come out to 5 works each (after the bogus additions were removed) yet another work was incorporated. Hob II:6 (I think) was originally a "divertimento for 2 violins, viola & basso", and it has been removed from Hob II and is now in Hob III where it proudly bears the name "Opus 0". I think it is part of Op 2 now...

Confusing enough yet?   

[Gurn Blanston]

Just as a footnote; in speaking of those early 'string quartets', one tends to say "string quartet", but really, the part that is usually assigned to the cello nowadays was very likely not intended for a cello, but for a double bass. It isn't until Op 9 in 1769 that the bass part is actually intended for cello.

[chasmaniac]

Just as a footnote; in speaking of those early 'string quartets', one tends to say "string quartet", but really, the part that is usually assigned to the cello nowadays was very likely not intended for a cello, but for a double bass. It isn't until Op 9 in 1769 that the bass part is actually intended for cello.

I follow. Opp. 9 and 17 present fully fledged SQs. Like Athena from the thigh of Zeus!

[Gurn Blanston]

I follow. Opp. 9 and 17 present fully fledged SQs. Like Athena from the thigh of Zeus!

My precise metaphorical vision.  0:)

[Leon]

It was from the forehead of Zeus but who's counting?

[Gurn Blanston]

It was from the forehead of Zeus but who's counting?

Oh, sorry. Actually, my precise vision involved my forehead AND Athena's thigh somehow... 

[chasmaniac]

It was from the forehead of Zeus but who's counting?

Either way, can't have been much fun for Zeus! 

[Leon]

Oh, sorry. Actually, my precise vision involved my forehead AND Athena's thigh somehow... 

She was famed as a virgin, so dream on, dream on ... but she will continue to just say no.

[Wanderer]

Like Athena from the thigh of Zeus!

That was Dionysus.

(and shame on you, Gurn! )

[mc ukrneal]

Is there somewhere here (or one of the other Haydn places) a post(s) that list either 1) Top complete string quartets collection or 2) Preferred individual releases for each group of quartets? I just realized that while I have some of the quartets, I don't have all of them. I'd like to rectify that.

Looking through here so far, you seem to, um, err, take a lot of tangents.   

[Gurn Blanston]

Is there somewhere here (or one of the other Haydn places) a post(s) that list either 1) Top complete string quartets collection or 2) Preferred individual releases for each group of quartets? I just realized that while I have some of the quartets, I don't have all of them. I'd like to rectify that.

Looking through here so far, you seem to, um, err, take a lot of tangents.   

Kind of a tough question though, Neal, because virtually every quartet has had a go at the Haydn quartets (one or another opus, several opera, or the whole dadgum thing!) since phonograph was invented. So this particular item really is a matter of taste, as in; "what do you like?" Question 2 must then be "what can you find to buy?".

My personal preference for period instrument performance recorded in good sound and by a group that I think is first-rate in this material is the Festetics Quartet. Many like the Mosaiques, and some are very taken with the newest PI set being released on Hyperion (London Haydn Quartet).

On modern instruments there is a whole host of contenders. I like the couple of releases by the Tokyo Quartet (Op 50 & 76). I find many others to be too plodding for my taste, but for all I know, that is exactly what you are looking for, so I don't knock them for that. This would include the sets from the Tatrai and the Angeles. As it happens, I like the Kodaly on Naxos, although thousands don't.

See, rec'cing something from this bunch is like passing off the tar baby; damned hard to do.

[North Star]

Although I can't say I've heard many other performances, I feel it is reasonably safe to recommend the Quatuor Mosaïques, their two 5-CD boxes are available at Amazon for ca. sixty bucks total, and you get the Seven Last Words for string quartet, too.
http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-String-Quartets-Opp-64/dp/B001F0K004/
http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-String-Quartets-Seven-Savior/dp/B001F0JZZU/

Some Youtube samples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc34Jr9udlU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyzHgZAz6bk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G90xWkeM7X0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu6eBdRHDlc

[DavidW]

Is there somewhere here (or one of the other Haydn places) a post(s) that list either 1) Top complete string quartets collection or 2) Preferred individual releases for each group of quartets? I just realized that while I have some of the quartets, I don't have all of them. I'd like to rectify that.

Looking through here so far, you seem to, um, err, take a lot of tangents.   

This is what I think of the box sets:

Angeles Q: slightly too serious playing, strange stereo imaging.
Tatrai Q: very dour performances, highly overrated.
Kodaly Q: despite what others say about them not having the chops for the later quartets, I think they are wrong, I think that this is the best complete cycle for being consistently good.
Buchberger Q: somewhere inbetween the overly polite, overly graceful Mosaiques and the very aggressive Festetics this is a fine set, on par with Kodaly.
Festetics Q: very exciting performances, very expensive, maybe oop.
Mosaiques Q: overly polite, makes Haydn sound like salon music, very expensive.

As you see there is one important set that I have not heard: Aeolian (spelling?).  And one I really want to here, the ongoing Auryn Q cycle.

[chasmaniac]

I would avoid the Angeles unless you want to hear more reverb than music.

I like the Lindsays alot. The Kodalys are solid.

[jlaurson]

Is there somewhere here (or one of the other Haydn places) a post(s) that list either 1) Top complete string quartets collection or 2) Preferred individual releases for each group of quartets? I just realized that while I have some of the quartets, I don't have all of them. I'd like to rectify that.

Looking through here so far, you seem to, um, err, take a lot of tangents.   

I've started a survey for WETA (which I will eventually complete, probably for ionarts...) it's up to op.33 so far and it might come in handy:



op.33
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=2259


op.20
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1607


op.17
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=856


op.9
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=592


opp.1 & 2, Introduction
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=558


7 Last Words
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=593

Tatrai: nothing I've heard was particularly good
Angeles: don't know. Ditto Aeolian Quartet.
Kodaly: Well.... read the above and you'll get the idea. They're charming, often very lovely... buttery in (recorded) sound and performance...
Mosaiques: not at all that expensive anymore... yes, 'polite', yes: fantastic; Haydn IS salon music in the best sense... astonishing quality of playing. Often very casual/slow.
Festetics: Not OOP but yes, can be pricey (MDT is the best source). Exciting they are, but exciting (not just to these ears) in the way that a jute-sack of drowning cats is exciting to watch (or hear). Intonation issues abound; some call it 'authentic'. That 'authentic' need not mean off-tone is shown by Mosaiques (not a complete cycle) and Buchberger.
Buchberger: Exciting, yes... sortof between Festetics and Mosaiques, very rarely any intonation problems... stylistically the other end from Kodaly, though... in that they're speed demons and lean-sounding.
Auryn: Bit expensive gotten individually... not terribly well presented on Amazon.com (yet). Total professionalism; perfect like Mosaiques, tendency toward long legato, stylistically not unlike Kodaly, though... saturated and occ. wallowing (in the best way) but with better and less soupy sound than Kodaly... if perhaps sometimes less personable charm.

[DavidW]

Here is my current piecemeal list:

Op 20-- Festetics
Op 33-- Kodaly
Op 50-- Nomos
Op 54-- Ysaye
Op 55-- Panocha
Op 64-- Buchberger
Op 71-- Auryn
Op 74-- Kocian
Op 76-- Kodaly
Op 77-- Angeles

[DavidW]

Maybe instead of using the word polite to describe QM, I should just say surprisingly legato phrasing for a PI group.  Which I guess is really not that bad, most of my favorites are modern groups that use the same type of phrasing.  I just think that probably the combo of phrasing and the low tuning a little too mellow for me.

Jens I agree that Buchberger Q deliver FAST performances, but I think they hold it together so they work for me.

[Mandryka]

Tatrai: nothing I've heard was particularly good

I like their Op 20 and Op 50.