Haydn's Haus

[DavidW]

I've now officially ripped all the Haydn quartets I've got (Amadeus Quartet — Opp. 51, 54, 55, 64, 71 & 74; Quatuor Mosaïques — Opp. 64, 76 & 77) and loaded onto the portable device . . . .

No Op 50, the finest ones!?

[Leon]

I've now officially ripped all the Haydn quartets I've got (Amadeus Quartet — Opp. 51, 54, 55, 64, 71 & 74; Quatuor Mosaïques — Opp. 64, 76 & 77) and loaded onto the portable device . . . .

Doesn't your Amadeus box have Op. 76, 77 and 103?  My box does.  But we may have different collections.

[Leon]

No Op 50, the finest ones!?

No.  I often wondered why the Amadeus Quartet started their cycle with Op. 51 and not 50. 

[starrynight]

Actually, he made a serious attempt to learn English and could actually get by with it pretty well. Of course, you are already aware that the Royals at that time were the Hanover's, very much Germans. So the class of people that he associated with spoke a surprising amount of German too, at least enough for them all to get on with.

The only real complaints I ever read from him about England were all the noise (seriously drove him nuts, which I can personally relate to!) and he felt the justice system was incredibly harsh and oddly inequitable. An example he gave (from actual happenings during his stay) was that if I loaned you a million pounds for some reason and you didn't pay me back, that was hard cheese for me. However, if you were caught stealing a loaf of bread, it was the death sentence for you, and not even the King could intercede on your behalf. I have to agree, those are inequitable.

Ah ok, I know he needed a translator when he first went.  And I thought Mozart brought up his lack of knowing the language among his concerns before he went.  But I suppose he must have picked up some of it in the time he was there.

As for lack of justice they had serfdom and absolute monarchies in parts of Europe up till around that time, so Britain was quite progressive on some things. 

It's interesting though that Handel managed to make the change but Haydn didn't.  Handel of course was used to travelling most of his life, having been in Italy for a while too I think.  Whether Mozart would have gone to Britain too of course we will never know.  Being younger there was a chance he may have stayed for longer (and no doubt enjoyed the high life).

[Karl Henning]

Doesn't your Amadeus box have Op. 76, 77 and 103?  My box does.  But we may have different collections.

Different collections, indeed.  I've this 'un:

[asin]B0002U9G9E[/asin]

[Karl Henning]

No Op 50, the finest ones!?

Now, Davey, you're not going paulb on us?  Haydn's string quartets went downhill after the Op.50? ; )

What is your preferred recording, lad?

[Karl Henning]

I see that they have one opus in common (64). I would be curious to hear your thoughts on their similarities and/or differences.

I shall apply myself to, if not a close, at least a mid-range comparison, O Gurn.  My quick back-of-the-envelope take is that I like both ensembles well, and I enjoy the several angles on the music.

[mc ukrneal]

+ =

[Karl Henning]

Thanks!

[Karl Henning]

Now, Davey, you're not going paulb on us?  Haydn's string quartets went downhill after the Op.50? ; )

What is your preferred recording, lad?

. . . for I see that the Quatuor Mosaïques somehow skipped the Op.50 . . . which is curious, if that be the finest set!

[Gurn Blanston]

Ah ok, I know he needed a translator when he first went.  And I thought Mozart brought up his lack of knowing the language among his concerns before he went.  But I suppose he must have picked up some of it in the time he was there.

As for lack of justice they had serfdom and absolute monarchies in parts of Europe up till around that time, so Britain was quite progressive on some things. 

It's interesting though that Handel managed to make the change but Haydn didn't.  Handel of course was used to travelling most of his life, having been in Italy for a while too I think.  Whether Mozart would have gone to Britain too of course we will never know.  Being younger there was a chance he may have stayed for longer (and no doubt enjoyed the high life).

Yes, Salomon went along at the first and translated everything. You can see in the London Notebooks that it wasn't long before he started trying to write in English as well. He was much as I am in Spanish; good vocabulary, poor verb declension and sentence construction. So he could understand much more than he could speak. I can relate to that!  

Yes, Handel was quite a traveler early times. But really, if Haydn had gone nearly anywhere else in Europe, he, just like Mozart, would have got on language-wise quite well. They both spoke Italian like natives, for example, and very passable French. But as I'm sure you've noted, English is difficult even for native speakers...

Hmm, Wolfgang and Constanze do London. There's a great story there somewhere.

[Gurn Blanston]

I shall apply myself to, if not a close, at least a mid-range comparison, O Gurn.  My quick back-of-the-envelope take is that I like both ensembles well, and I enjoy the several angles on the music.

Thanks. I don't have any recordings of a Romantic-styled quartet doing Haydn, although I have the Amadeus doing some Beethoven. Just curious how they sound vs a known quantity like the Mosaiques.

[Sergeant Rock]

. . . for I see that the Quatuor Mosaïques somehow skipped the Op.50 . . . which is curious, if that be the finest set!

I won't debate David about op.50 (I'll just say he isn't the only one who thinks them Haydn's finest). But they aren't popular. They are sterner, more serious; they don't go down as easily. That may be the reason most quartets (other than those committed to complete cycles) have ignored them. Best op.50? The old Tokyo on DG (oop).

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

. . . for I see that the Quatuor Mosaïques somehow skipped the Op.50 . . . which is curious, if that be the finest set!

As you may have noted in my survey (1787), the only PI recordings of Op 50 are Festetics and Salomon. And the occasional single like the Schuppanzigh's doing #6. Even in the MI realm, unless and entire cycle is being undertaken, Op 50 gets short shrift. I believe that it is for a couple of reasons; it is known to be a difficult bite to chew for the average listener. In the language of those times, it is for Kenner rather than Liebhaber. And then, it falls between some major brethren, the immensely popular and symbolic Op 33 and the also very popular Op 64. Note that in terms of recording history its immediate neighbor, Op 54/55 gets much the same treatment, also undeservedly so. For me, the period of these composition, say, 1785 to 89, is also home to my favorite Haydn works by far. And the string quartets of those years are no exception in any way.

[Gurn Blanston]

I won't debate David about op.50 (I'll just say he isn't the only one who thinks them Haydn's finest). But they aren't popular. They are sterner, more serious; they don't go down as easily. That may be the reason most quartets (other than those committed to complete cycles) have ignored them. Best op.50? The old Tokyo on DG (oop).

Sarge

I wish I had said that.   I also can't disagree about the Tokyo Quartet version. It is the standard by which....

[Sergeant Rock]

Op 50 gets short shrift. I believe that it is for a couple of reasons; it is known to be a difficult bite to chew for the average listener. In the language of those times, it is for Kenner rather than Liebhaber. And then, it falls between some major brethren, the immensely popular and symbolic Op 33 and the also very popular Op 64. Note that in terms of recording history its immediate neighbor, Op 54/55 gets much the same treatment, also undeservedly so.

I wish I had said that 

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Well, this is a 21^st-century composer talking. Haydn didn't write the nut too tough for me to crack . . . .

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, this is a 21^st-century composer talking. Haydn didn't write the nut too tough for me to crack . . . .

  Hmmm... I smell a challenge coming. More on that later.

[Karl Henning]

  Hmmm... I smell a challenge coming. More on that later.

Cool. Bring it on! : )

[chasmaniac]

Cool. Bring it on! : )

21st Century Smackdown Man!