Haydn's Haus

[Bogey]

I plan to, yes, though not in chronological order.

If you could note from time to time what made you jump to a particular symphony, I would find it interesting to read.

[Wakefield]

Symphony No. 6 in D major "Le Matin" Hob I:6



I might be guilty of Romanticizing it but I truly see this as a kind of Wanderer. Not the gloomy and resigned Schubert's one, but a happy, hopeful and genial one, waking up in the morning and walking through forests, climbing up hills and passing through small yet lively villages. Here listening to the birds chirping, there watching a procession of badgers; now joining a peasant dance, then having a pint of beer at the inn under linden and chestnut trees, finally going again on the road, wherever it might lead --- and at all times with an open heart and a soul filled with awe for the world's beauty. It strongly reminded me a paragraph in Hermann Hesse's novel Knulp where he extolls the freedom of a vagrant life.

I don't know if I recall Schubert when I hear these symphonies, but one thing is sure for me: Haydn seems to be talking about a "real" Nature, not simply an "idealized" one, as I feel it's the case with another composers of the same period. You think: This guy has really lived outdoors. 

BTW, what's your favorite Hesse novel, Andrei? Mine: Demian: Die Geschichte von Emil Sinclairs Jugend (Spanish translation, of course, as I don't read German).

[Florestan]

If you could note from time to time what made you jump to a particular symphony, I would find it interesting to read.

I started --- logically --- with the 1st then jumped to 6th because it was discussed above. 

Where do I go now? 

[Bogey]

I started --- logically --- with the 1st then jumped to 6th because it was discussed above. 

Where do I go now? 

First movement of the 4th.  Impressions welcomed!

[Wakefield]

I started --- logically --- with the 1st then jumped to 6th because it was discussed above. 

Where do I go now? 

No. 37, probably the second or even the first Haydn symphony conserved. 

[Gurn Blanston]

http://www.youtube.com/v/fI8sFARtcTY

Symphony No. 1 in D major Hob I: 1(1)

Adam Fischer & The Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra

First listening ever. Boy, this must be one of the best firsts out there. 1st movement: big, bold, grand --- like young Joseph crying out loud: Hey, you counts and dukes and princes, this poor wheelwright offspring here is gonna grab you all by the neck! 2nd movement: serene, peaceful, genial --- Hey, don't panic too much! I'm good-humored by nature and I'll treat your necks gently! 3rd movement: fun, humorous, almost tongue-in-cheek --- Stay tuned for more, Your Highnesses! You'll have the fun of your life!

Do we know what the reaction of Count Morzin was when hearing it, Gurn?

Well, I've said from the first that you can recognize the mature Haydn right from Symphony #1. Still do believe it, nice to see that you do too. Unfortunately, we don't have any documents from that period. We aren't even 100% sure whether he worked for the father or the son. 

[Florestan]

I don't know if I recall Schubert when I hear these symphonies,

Oh, me neither. It was only by contrast that I named him.

but one thing is sure for me: Haydn seems to be talking about a "real" Nature, not simply an "idealized" one, as I feel it's the case with another composers of the same period. You think: This guy has really lived outdoors. 

Exactly. This is why I was reminded of "wandering" in a Hesse-esque, not Schubert-ian way. 

BTW, what's your favorite Hesse novel, Andrei? Mine: Demian: Die Geschichte von Emil Sinclairs Jugend (Spanish translation, of course, as I don't read German).

That's indeed a great novel but my favorite is Steppenwolf. And my very favorite Hesse in all genres must be the poems contained in The Glass Bead Game. (translations, too.)

Speaking of Hesse and music, here's an excerpt from the introduction to TGBG which I think fits very well in this thread:

"We consider classical music to be the epitome and quintessence of our culture, because it is that culture's clearest, most significant gesture and expression. In this music we possess the heritage of classical antiquity and Christianity, a spirit of serenely cheerful and brave piety, a superbly chivalric morality. For in the final analysis every important cultural gesture comes down to a morality, a model for human behavior concentrated into a gesture. As we know, between 1500 and 1800 a wide variety of music was made; styles and means of expression were extremely variegated; but the spirit, or rather the morality, was everywhere the same. The human attitude of which classical music is the expression is always the same; it is always based on the same kind of insight into life and strives for the same kind of victory over blind chance. Classical music as gesture signifies knowledge of the tragedy of the human condition, affirmation of human destiny, courage, cheerful serenity. The grace of a minuet by Handel or Couperin, the sensuality sublimated into delicate gesture to be found in many Italian composers or in Mozart, the tranquil, composed readiness for death in Bach -- always there may be heard in these works a defiance, a death-defying intrepidity, a gallantry, and a note of superhuman laughter, of immortal gay serenity."

[Wakefield]

Well, I've said from the first that you can recognize the mature Haydn right from Symphony #1. Still do believe it, nice to see that you do too. Unfortunately, we don't have any documents from that period. We aren't even 100% sure whether he worked for the father or the son. 

Yes, there are not even autographs of the Morzin symphonies, IIRC.

[Gurn Blanston]

No. 37, probably the second or even the first Haydn symphony conserved. 

Nearly certainly the 2nd. All sources (even Haydn himself) agree that #1 is #1. And that's saying something!   

That said, #37 (2) is a fine piece.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, there are not even autographs of the Morzin symphonies, IIRC.

I think a few of them, but mostly not. However, the parts that are widely distributed throughout the monasteries in the area are all done by the same 4 copyists and Haydn's own handwriting (as corrections) shows up on enough of them to be able to say that they are his. Handwriting and paper analysis is a wonderful thing!

But a letter or any sort of other document would be wonderful to have.

[Wakefield]

I think a few of them, but mostly not. However, the parts that are widely distributed throughout the monasteries in the area are all done by the same 4 copyists and Haydn's own handwriting (as corrections) shows up on enough of them to be able to say that they are his. Handwriting and paper analysis is a wonderful thing!

But a letter or any sort of other document would be wonderful to have.

It's probable as these things are always changing: past is always changing  and who knows if any autograph has been found. But I recall -although my memory isn't what it used to be-, I have read somewhere that there are not autographs from that period. Apparently, the oldest copy is a 1758 copy [Symphony No. 37] from the archives of the Schwarzenberg princes, discovered at the Böhmisch Krumau Castle (Český Krumlov Castle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cesk%C3%BD_Krumlov_Castle).

[Wakefield]

Nearly certainly the 2nd. All sources (even Haydn himself) agree that #1 is #1. And that's saying something!   

Of course, he says Griesinger that No. 1 was his first symphony, but maybe Haydn was wrong about the exact year (1759) because apparently he began writing symphonies in 1757. Or maybe he though Symphony No. 1 was a nice first work to open his symphonic canon. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Of course, he says Griesinger that No. 1 was his first symphony, but maybe Haydn was wrong about the exact year (1759) because apparently he began writing symphonies in 1757. Or maybe he though Symphony No. 1 was a nice first work to open his symphonic canon. 

That was in the 1805 Elssler chronicle, and in discussion with Griesinger. However, in the 1765 Entwurf Katalog he specifically listed it as his first symphony. It was indeed, 1757 though, which he didn't put dates in that early catalog because they weren't significant for his purpose. It can be fairly conceded that 45 years later he might have been a little foggy about a year here or there.

[Wakefield]

That was in the 1805 Elssler chronicle, and in discussion with Griesinger. However, in the 1765 Entwurf Katalog he specifically listed it as his first symphony. It was indeed, 1757 though, which he didn't put dates in that early catalog because they weren't significant for his purpose. It can be fairly conceded that 45 years later he might have been a little foggy about a year here or there.

No doubt, frequently I have a lot of difficulties to recall if something happened three, four or five years ago. That's the reason why - now - all things of my near past happened around five years ago.   

in the 1765 Entwurf Katalog he specifically listed it as his first symphony

Do you know if Symphony No. 37 is listed, Gurn?

[Gurn Blanston]

No doubt, frequently I have a lot of difficulties to recall if something happened three, four or five years ago. That's the reason why - now - all things of my near past happened around five years ago.   

Do you know if Symphony No. 37 is listed, Gurn?

Not OTTOMH, but I can easily find out this evening when I get home. They are not hard to keep straight since he jotted a little incipit next to the listing, just as Mozart later did in his own Katalog. 

[Bogey]

Not OTTOMH, but I can easily find out this evening when I get home. They are not hard to keep straight since he jotted a little incipit next to the listing, just as Mozart later did in his own Katalog. 

Just curious, Gurn, but are the folks that you work with aware of your level of enjoyment when it comes to Haydn, or classical music?  Anyone there enjoy these topics with you?

[Gurn Blanston]

Just curious, Gurn, but are the folks that you work with aware of your level of enjoyment when it comes to Haydn, or classical music?  Anyone there enjoy these topics with you?

  No, they know that I love it, but no one here would be caught dead. It is my international jet set friends that get me going (and of course, my domestic jet set friends too, goes without saying!). 

[Sergeant Rock]

The third movement brought back the winds....never too much winds!  It was my favorite of the four due to the almost Edvard Grieg-like "In the Hall of the Mountain King" moments.  At least that is what I connected it with.

We should start a campaign to change the nickname of the Sixth from "Le Matin" to "The Troll" 

Sarge

[Wakefield]

Not OTTOMH, but I can easily find out this evening when I get home. They are not hard to keep straight since he jotted a little incipit next to the listing, just as Mozart later did in his own Katalog. 

Excellent!

[Gurn Blanston]

We should start a campaign to change the nickname of the Sixth from "Le Matin" to "The Troll" 

Sarge

Hey, wait a minute... is that a troll?