Haydn's Haus

[torut]

If Haydn could be narrowed down to one strong point in his work, it would be a really tough choice between his Adagios (which are freaking gorgeous, usually) and [...]

Recently I am repeatedly listening to Op. 20, and I found the adagio movements so beautiful. I felt some of them almost ethereal or otherworldly. I didn't realize it before. I also love Beethoven's adagios very much.

[Gurn Blanston]

Recently I am repeatedly listening to Op. 20, and I found the adagio movements so beautiful. I felt some of them almost ethereal or otherworldly. I didn't realize it before. I also love Beethoven's adagios very much.

Yes, he was another one who just had a way with slow movements.

You could extract just the slow movements out of a series of Haydn works (not just symphonies) and listen to nothing else and they would be quite satisfactory. 

[EigenUser]

Yes, he was another one who just had a way with slow movements.

You could extract just the slow movements out of a series of Haydn works (not just symphonies) and listen to nothing else and they would be quite satisfactory. 

That's like what I do with the Mahler scherzos!

[Pat B]

Strongly recommend you listen to it again, I've found it difficult to evaluate Haydn's symphonies on anything less than 30 or 40 listenings.... 

LOL... I did listen to it last night (and 89 and 90 for good measure).

[torut]

Yes, he was another one who just had a way with slow movements.

You could extract just the slow movements out of a series of Haydn works (not just symphonies) and listen to nothing else and they would be quite satisfactory. 

You can sell a compilation album Adagio Haydn and it will be a bestseller. (No Haydn in Adagio Karajan? )

[EigenUser]

Just saw 100. Add to my list of favorites.

That's a brutal poll. Your four, Gurn, could easily be my four...but 93, 95 and 99 were chosen instead (100 or 101 would have been the fourth choice). And yes, how could I not include 103 or 104 (which, along with 88, was the Haydn of choice for 20th century conductors who conducted little other Haydn). Just shows you how great he was.

Sarge

Sarge, I'm surprised that 100 isn't your absolute favorite...

[Gurn Blanston]

You can sell a compilation album Adagio Haydn and it will be a bestseller. (No Haydn in Adagio Karajan? )

  Yes, it is open for many sequels too, there are dozens of candidates.

Well, Karajan's specialty, bless his heart, was Romantic music. It would be hard to visualize what sort of treatment he would have to put them through in order to Karajanize them sufficiently for a project like that!  

[Gurn Blanston]

1773 was an interesting year, pivoting mainly on the visit of the Empress and her retinue to Eszterháza in September. This all certainly kept Haydn busy, if you would like to see what he was up to, by all means, come visit.

The year the Empress stopped by (again)

Thanks!

[Ken B]

  Yes, it is open for many sequels too, there are dozens of candidates.

Well, Karajan's specialty, bless his heart, was Romantic music. It would be hard to visualize what sort of treatment he would have to put them through in order to Karajanize them sufficiently for a project like that!  

I do not agree about HvK. His specialty was, and I doubt many will agree with me, bringing out structure where it is sometimes a bit hidden. Think Tchaikovsky, Bruckner, Sibelius, Shostakovich vs Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven. The structural strength of the latter 3 is obvious, but not all conductors find it for the first bunch. Herbie did.

[Karl Henning]

But if his specialty is bringing out structure . . . in the case of the composers where the structure is obvious, what value does he bring to Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven?

[Gurn Blanston]

I do not agree about HvK. His specialty was, and I doubt many will agree with me, bringing out structure where it is sometimes a bit hidden. Think Tchaikovsky, Bruckner, Sibelius, Shostakovich vs Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven. The structural strength of the latter 3 is obvious, but not all conductors find it for the first bunch. Herbie did.

Certainly so, not saying otherwise. This is why he was such a fine Romantic music conductor, IMO. Haydn doesn't benefit from it though, and may even lose a bit, in that the little details of orchestration which make Haydn what he is tend to disappear. As an example I will say that when Haydn was writing 1 flute part and 2 oboe parts, as he did in many later symphonies, he was writing for 1 flute and 2 oboes. If Tchaikovsky was writing 1 flute and 2 oboe parts, he could take it for granted there would be far more than three people playing those parts together, and write them accordingly. It's a different sort of music for a different sort of situation, and music directors who try to treat them all the same will pay a price. Actually, it was Haydn who paid the price,but you know what I mean.

But if his specialty is bringing out structure . . . in the case of the composers where the structure is obvious, what value does he bring to Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven?

Interesting question.

[EigenUser]

Last night I watched the BPO play Haydn 98 with Koopman on the DCH. At the very end of the piece, he (the conductor!) suddenly played a little harpsichord that was in front of him (I didn't even notice that it was a harpsichord until he played it -- certainly didn't look like one to me). Here is a preview clip from YouTube. It doesn't include the part with Koopman playing the harpsichord, but it shows it in front of him.

http://www.youtube.com/v/eA__F55uji0

Has anyone seen anything like this before? I've seen soloists conduct before and I know that is quite common, but this seemed odd. Made me laugh.

Also, I've exhausted the (sadly small) supply of Haydn symphonies on the DCH. Are there any particularly good video performances of Haydn symphonies on YouTube that anyone knows about?

[Gurn Blanston]

Last night I watched the BPO play Haydn 98 with Koopman on the DCH. At the very end of the piece, he (the conductor!) suddenly played a little harpsichord that was in front of him (I didn't even notice that it was a harpsichord until he played it -- certainly didn't look like one to me). Here is a preview clip from YouTube. It doesn't include the part with Koopman playing the harpsichord, but it shows it in front of him.

http://www.youtube.com/v/eA__F55uji0

Has anyone seen anything like this before? I've seen soloists conduct before and I know that is quite common, but this seemed odd. Made me laugh.

Also, I've exhausted the (sadly small) supply of Haydn symphonies on the DCH. Are there any particularly good video performances of Haydn symphonies on YouTube that anyone knows about?

  Yes, that little bit is famous, in fact. Throughout the first 2 years of the London Concerts (91 & 92), Haydn sat there at the keyboard playing continuo, which he had given up years before but which was still de rigeur in London. Mainly it was to get his face out on public, since the big advertising sales pitch of the Salomon Concerts was that they had Haydn leading the music. So when he wrote the end of this symphony, he included a little obbligato keyboard bit just to show he was actually alive up there. It made you laugh. I think it was intended to make you laugh. Clearly the music could do just fine without it. It is a very Haydnish touch, who else would have done such a thing? 

[EigenUser]

  Yes, that little bit is famous, in fact. Throughout the first 2 years of the London Concerts (91 & 92), Haydn sat there at the keyboard playing continuo, which he had given up years before but which was still de rigeur in London. Mainly it was to get his face out on public, since the big advertising sales pitch of the Salomon Concerts was that they had Haydn leading the music. So when he wrote the end of this symphony, he included a little obbligato keyboard bit just to show he was actually alive up there. It made you laugh. I think it was intended to make you laugh. Clearly the music could do just fine without it. It is a very Haydnish touch, who else would have done such a thing? 

That's awesome! Thanks for sharing that story. I love those little quirks in music. Probably why I also like Ligeti so much, too. He's another Hungarian with a very keen sense of musical humor (i.e. the ocarinas in the VC).

[Gurn Blanston]

That's awesome! Thanks for sharing that story. I love those little quirks in music. Probably why I also like Ligeti so much, too. He's another Hungarian with a very keen sense of musical humor (i.e. the ocarinas in the VC).

I love those little quirks too. Haydn is chock full of them, that was a big part of his initial appeal for me. Given the time frame we are talking about, he was one-of-a-kind. At least part of that is because he could afford to be; his employer was much like us. But the bigger part is that he was one of the great comics of music.

I can't find it right this minute, dammit, but I saw a little YouTube clip the other night by a pianist and he was showing how Haydn intentionally wrote this little bit to make the player look like he had lost his place and had to start over. Only the player didn't lose his place, Haydn wrote it that way. If you were at a salon and actually watching this being played, you couldn't help but think the player had messed it up. I can see Haydn standing over in the corner laughing in his sleeve at all this. That's the kind of guy he was.

In London, there was a violinist who thought he was God's Gift. Haydn wrote his Trio in eb (Hob 31) for Therese Jantzen, a superb pianist and good friend of Haydn, and there is still extant a little note he wrote (on the manuscript) 'wait til so-and-so gets to this part!) where the violin swoops up into the stratosphere where only the bravest dare to go. No way he could play it. Just a little joke. 

[torut]

Also, I've exhausted the (sadly small) supply of Haydn symphonies on the DCH. Are there any particularly good video performances of Haydn symphonies on YouTube that anyone knows about?

This may not what you are looking for, but I found an interesting performance of Symphony No. 104 played by 7 people. I haven't heard anything like this before. Does anyone know if there is any ground for this instrumentation? In any case, this sounds very good.

Haydn - Symphony Hob. 104
Performed by La Tempestad.
Guillermo Peñalver, flute
Farran James & Pablo Prieto, violins
Antonio Clares, viola
Juan Pérez de Albéniz, violoncello
Jorge Muñoz, violone
Silvia Márquez, fortepiano

http://vimeo.com/25071778 - I Adagio-Allegro
http://vimeo.com/25072574 - II Andante
http://vimeo.com/25076613 - III Menuetto
http://vimeo.com/25077246 - IV Finale

[Gurn Blanston]

Ah, here is that link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Cf68kT_Fg

This fellow is quite good. I ran across him on Twitter.

[Gurn Blanston]

This may not what you are looking for, but I found an interesting performance of Symphony No. 104 played by 7 people. I haven't heard anything like this before. Does anyone know if there is any ground for this instrumentation? In any case, this sounds very good.

Haydn - Symphony Hob. 104
Performed by La Tempestad.
Guillermo Peñalver, flute
Farran James & Pablo Prieto, violins
Antonio Clares, viola
Juan Pérez de Albéniz, violoncello
Jorge Muñoz, violone
Silvia Márquez, fortepiano

http://vimeo.com/25071778 - I Adagio-Allegro
http://vimeo.com/25072574 - II Andante
http://vimeo.com/25076613 - III Menuetto
http://vimeo.com/25077246 - IV Finale

I can't remember a septet specifically, but chamber arrangements of the London Symphonies were being published within a few months of their premieres. Salomon himself arranged all of them for Flute, Violin, Cello & Fortepiano. So there is certainly a history for it.

[kishnevi]

Do not forget the Saxon Pigsticker variations in which he intentionally used the dissonances produced by one of the common temperment systems of the era.  Beghin included a video performance on the DVD of his set,  which is probably on YouTube.  (At the moment I am on a bus traveling up the New Jersey Turnpike, so I can not provide the formal name of the piece.)

[torut]

I can't remember a septet specifically, but chamber arrangements of the London Symphonies were being published within a few months of their premieres. Salomon himself arranged all of them for Flute, Violin, Cello & Fortepiano. So there is certainly a history for it.

That's interesting, thank you. So, Haydn himself didn't make such arrangements of his symphonies?