Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Curious if anyone here has actually listened to Horn Concerto #2 and have an opinion about it.

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Of course, I have one, but I hope to hear yours!

[Jo498]

symphony #93

"The Flatulent"

I actually heard a moderator on the German Radio claim that the slow movement had been explicitly called "der Satz mit dem Furz" (The movement with the fart). A Victorian/Edwardian gentleman like Tovey calls it "the Great Bassoon Joke" or "Chaucerian humour"

[Sergeant Rock]

Curious if anyone here has actually listened to Horn Concerto #2 and have an opinion about it.

It doesn't sound like Haydn to me. Can't really explain why though. The liner notes to the Fey recording say it is harmonically less adventurous (limited harmonic spectrum). Maybe that's what I'm hearing, or not hearing. The minor key Adagio is unusual for Haydn too (in a concerto). I love the work though (no matter who composed it).

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

symphony #93
I actually heard a moderator on the German Radio claim that the slow movement had been explicitly called "der Satz mit dem Furz" (The movement with the fart). A Victorian/Edwardian gentleman like Tovey calls it "the Great Bassoon Joke" or "Chaucerian humour"

Perhaps under Tovey's influence, I also call it the Great Bassoon Joke, but I actually think of it as 'that enviable bassoon fart'...

[Gurn Blanston]

It doesn't sound like Haydn to me. Can't really explain why though. The liner notes to the Fey recording say it is harmonically less adventurous (limited harmonic spectrum). Maybe that's what I'm hearing, or not hearing. The minor key Adagio is unusual for Haydn too (in a concerto). I love the work though (no matter who composed it).

Sarge

Thanks for your reply, Sarge. It is a work which I have never even seen mentioned in the Forum or by anyone who would discuss it.

Let me propose a what-if:

What if it was not actually composed in 1781, when it showed up in Breitkopf's catalog. What is it was composed in 1761 instead, and just never showed up for 20 years, as concertos tend to do when the owner wants to hang on to it. That would make it actually horn concerto #1 and handle the "it is harmonically less adventurous (limited harmonic spectrum)" argument rather neatly, I would think... 

[Wakefield]

I listened to the Horn Concerto No. 2, performed by Fey and his people, and first of all I need to say that that Wilhelm Bruns is quite exceptional as horn player. The whole thing is delightfully played.

Regarding the authorship, I feel the same as Sarge: this doesn't sound very Haydn, at least the first two movements and particularly the Adagio.

I mean it's an excellent work, but a little bit self-complacent, more Vienna than Esterházy (even considering the jokes). Anyway, the composition of a mature composer.     

[Gurn Blanston]

I listened to the Horn Concerto No. 2, performed by Fey and his people, and first of all I need to say that that Wilhelm Bruns is quite exceptional as horn player. The whole thing is delightfully played.

Regarding the authorship, I feel the same as Sarge: this doesn't sound very Haydn, at least the first two movements and particularly the Adagio.

I mean it's an excellent work, but a little bit self-complacent, more Vienna than Esterházy (even considering the jokes). Anyway, the composition of a mature composer.     

Thanks, Gordo. You've given me something else to think about, and you know, I never have enough.   That disk was supposed to be in my mailbox a week and a half ago and still hasn't arrived, so I am using Marriner/Tuckwell, which is fine, but I sure miss the sound of a natural horn!

I have a great pile of literature on this work which I am dutifully plowing through; so far I have found the professionals to be singularly unimaginative. You and Sarge are far more helpful    0:)

[Wakefield]

... I am using Marriner/Tuckwell, which is fine, but I sure miss the sound of a natural horn!

It's wonderful, indeed, and sumptuously recorded. BTW, that Bruns should be protected like an animal in danger of extinction. 

[Sergeant Rock]

What if it was not actually composed in 1781, when it showed up in Breitkopf's catalog. What is it was composed in 1761 instead, and just never showed up for 20 years, as concertos tend to do when the owner wants to hang on to it. That would make it actually horn concerto #1 and handle the "it is harmonically less adventurous (limited harmonic spectrum)" argument rather neatly, I would think... 

That could work for me. It does sound like a piece from the early Classical era. Is that your theory or is there literature on the subject?

I listened to the Horn Concerto No. 2, performed by Fey and his people, and first of all I need to say that that Wilhelm Bruns is quite exceptional as horn player. The whole thing is delightfully played.   

It's one of my favorite Fey discs. Here he reins in his sometimes excessive exuberance and conducts all three works genially. I think Gurn will like it despite it being a hybrid band    And yes, Bruns is a great talent.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

That could work for me. It does sound like a piece from the early Classical era. Is that your theory or is there literature on subject?

It's one of my favorite Fey discs. Here he reins in his sometimes excessive exuberance and conducts all three works genially. I think Gurn will like it despite it being a hybrid band    And yes, Bruns is a great talent.

Sarge

Well, I hate to jump out there naked, so to speak, but I am writing about this right now, probably publishing later today or early tomorrow. There is certainly literature, but I can say it is uncertain in its conclusions. It is MY belief that it is an early J. Haydn work though, certainly not a 1781 J. Haydn work. No one else has said that.

I'll have more info in my next essay. I hate to Newman you like that, but I don't like to eat desert before the meal... 

[Sergeant Rock]

I'll have more info in my next essay. I hate to Newman you like that, but I don't like to eat desert before the meal... 

I understand, and I would not want you to dilute your thunder. Looking forward, then, to your next blog entry.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

I understand, and I would not want you to dilute your thunder. Looking forward, then, to your next blog entry.

Sarge

Thanks, Sarge; well, maybe a little thunder. This one was an absolute pig to research, but I hope the result was worth the effort. I've been wanting to address the authenticity thing for a long time, and there will probably not be another opportunity as time moves on. I hope you all will enjoy the result:

La chasse'ing the concerto

Thanks!

[Jo498]

I have a technical question: I have been browsing through this thread (at page 61 now...) and wonder if it makes sense to reply to/comment on some messages that are several years old.
Or have there been new threads opened for, e.g. the string quartets and recordings thereof?
at 459 pages unwieldy does not seem an exaggeration...

[Gurn Blanston]

I have a technical question: I have been browsing through this thread (at page 61 now...) and wonder if it makes sense to reply to/comment on some messages that are several years old.
Or have there been new threads opened for, e.g. the string quartets and recordings thereof?
at 459 pages unwieldy does not seem an exaggeration...

Well, unless it is a reply to a member who is now a guest, I think everyone who has ever been an active participant here would still be delighted to discuss those items. I have brought up old topics and had conversations restart right from that point like they never stopped! 

[mc ukrneal]

So I finally, after many years, got the Music for Prince Esterhazy and the King of Naples (the set on BIS). I haven't gotten any new Haydn in 2-3 years (with pieces new to me anyway) and how exciting these performances are. Why I waited so long, when I have the Huss Overture discs (and thus know just how good they are), is beyond me. Great stuff.
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[Gurn Blanston]

So I finally, after many years, got the Music for Prince Esterhazy and the King of Naples (the set on BIS). I haven't gotten any new Haydn in 2-3 years (with pieces new to me anyway) and how exciting these performances are. Why I waited so long, when I have the Huss Overture discs (and thus know just how good they are), is beyond me. Great stuff.
[asin]B001PBCZL0[/asin]

That's great, Neal. You're right, that is an excellent box; for me, it is on the 'indispensable' list. You have the overtures, I had the original Koch/Swann Scherzandi disk for an intro. Nice to know how good they are going in!

[Gurn Blanston]

Some talk about string quartets lately, fortuitously I just arrived at one of the more interesting opera, 1781's Op 33. Here are some of the things I discovered. Love to discuss, if you have a mind to.

Written in a new and special way

Thanks!

[Gurn Blanston]

One hardly hears about art song until Schubert's Erlkönig comes along, but there was certainly plenty of it around, even as early as the late 1770's. Haydn had a go at it, and some very nice results ensued. I take a look and listen this week, join me!

C'mon, sing, it's good for you!

Thanks,
Gurn

[Jo498]

Well, unless it is a reply to a member who is now a guest, I think everyone who has ever been an active participant here would still be delighted to discuss those items. I have brought up old topics and had conversations restart right from that point like they never stopped! 

The probable unbeatable fun fact is already in, that you were an accomplished Sauschneider!

There are frequent links by Jens Laursen to an older blog? of his that does not longer exist (at least not reachable). Is this material, e.g. comparisons between several recordings of (some of) the string quartets available somewhere else?

[Sergeant Rock]

The probable unbeatable fun fact is already in, that you were an accomplished Sauschneider!

There are frequent links by Jens Laursen to an older blog? of his that does not longer exist (at least not reachable). Is this material, e.g. comparisons between several recordings of (some of) the string quartets available somewhere else?

His WETA blog was taken offline. Sad. I managed to save his Mahler survey but didn't get the Haydn.

Sarge