Haydn's Haus

[Florestan]

Since it has been mentioned...

Never forget that baroque is synonymous with too – too much, too dynamic, too colourful, too contrasted, too slow, too fast, and so on

Too much / dynamic / colorful / contrasted / slow / fast for whom? For Ton Koopman? If he says so, we must believe him. For the "Baroque" composers and performers themselves? Hardly.

[Jo498]

Since it has been mentioned...

Too much / dynamic / colorful / contrasted / slow / fast for whom? For Ton Koopman? If he says so, we must believe him. For the "Baroque" composers and performers themselves? Hardly.

No, for the proponents of a more popular, "natural" and simpler style from the 1730s on, starting with the "gallant style", then "Empfindsamkeit" and (what we call) early classicism of the Mannheim school and others.
Roughly, preferring Hasse to Handel and Handel to JS Bach.
Of course what WE call baroque, that is almost everything from 1600-1750, is highly diverse, as I illustrated with the Biber vs. Corelli example. So Corelli is not "too much" in such a sense as Biber's colorful and mannered way is.

[Madiel]

Baroque as a term for music is something that was pilfered from the visual arts. Reading too much into the literal meaning of the word is dangerous.

[The new erato]

The Hurwitzer strikes; "CD From Hell: Haydn Horn Flatulence from Fey"

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-hell-haydn-horn-flatulence-fey/

The complete review unfortunately is behind a pay wall.

[Gurn Blanston]

The Hurwitzer strikes; "CD From Hell: Haydn Horn Flatulence from Fey"

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-hell-haydn-horn-flatulence-fey/

The complete review unfortunately is behind a pay wall.

Just from the sentence or two that you can read, it is easy to identify the usual Hurwitz bullshit. What a dolt

[Wakefield]

The complete review unfortunately is behind a pay wall.

At least, this way it's less harmful. 

[Gurn Blanston]

At least, this way it's less harmful. 

[The new erato]

At least, this way it's less harmful. 

Farting hobbits; they're harmful?

[Sergeant Rock]

Just from the sentence or two that you can read, it is easy to identify the usual Hurwitz bullshit. What a dolt

His main gripe is with the Fey's speeds:

"It might be possible to play these two concertos with attractive tone on the natural horn—the two adagios suggest as much - but not at the ridiculously quick tempos that Fey adopts for the outer movements [of Horn Concerto 1). Bruns copes gamely, but still sounds desperate..."

"In the symphony, Fey also continues his current practice of playing everything as fast as humanly possible..."

I'm not sure his criticism here rises to the level of dolthood but I certainly don't agree with him...not in these performances anyway. Truth is, some of Fey's tempos elsewhere are extreme...but at least you get something unique for your money 

Okay, his cheap remark about the near impossibility of playing with an attractive tone on the natural horn is the raving of a lunatic

Sarge

[Brian]

I am still offended by the obnoxiously quick tempos Fey uses in #92, but generally, he's a lot of fun when he decides to race to the finish line.

[Sergeant Rock]

I am still offended by the obnoxiously quick tempos Fey uses in #92, but generally, he's a lot of fun when he decides to race to the finish line.

92 doesn't bother me much but what he does in the first movement of No.1 has a Gouldian lunacy that's laugh out loud funny. I prefer something a bit slower. Fischer is ideal here.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

His main gripe is with the Fey's speeds:

"It might be possible to play these two concertos with attractive tone on the natural horn—the two adagios suggest as much - but not at the ridiculously quick tempos that Fey adopts for the outer movements [of Horn Concerto 1). Bruns copes gamely, but still sounds desperate..."

"In the symphony, Fey also continues his current practice of playing everything as fast as humanly possible..."

I'm not sure his criticism here rises to the level of dolthood but I certainly don't agree with him...not in these performances anyway. Truth is, some of Fey's tempos elsewhere are extreme...but at least you get something unique for your money 

Okay, his cheap remark about the near impossibility of playing with an attractive tone on the natural horn is the raving of a lunatic

Sarge

That' is all I was dolting him for. Bruns plays wonderfully well on this disk, as you know, I recently purchased it specifically for Horn Concerto #2, which I listened to at least a dozen times, and I could detect no issues on Bruns' part. Actually, if you read virtually any other reviews of his which include natural horns, his complaint is a constant. He gigged Huss & Co on the Prince of Naples set, or maybe it was the Early Divertimenti set, with something like 'this would all sound fine for period instruments if they would just switch over to valve horns...'    Clearly he doesn't like natural horns. Which would be fine if he would then refrain from writing about them. Dolt.    

[Sergeant Rock]

That' is all I was dolting him for. Bruns plays wonderfully well on this disk, as you know, I recently purchased it specifically for Horn Concerto #2, which I listened to at least a dozen times, and I could detect no issues on Bruns' part. Actually, if you read virtually any other reviews of his which include natural horns, his complaint is a constant. He gigged Huss & Co on the Prince of Naples set, or maybe it was the Early Divertimenti set, with something like 'this would all sound fine for period instruments if they would just switch over to valve horns...'    Clearly he doesn't like natural horns. Which would be fine if he would then refrain from writing about them. Dolt.    

And yet he never criticizes the band's natural horns, even when they are playing at Fey's most extreme speeds. It's that contradiction that makes his reviews maddening, and makes viewing him as a dolt possible    On the other hand, he'll write things like this which make me love the man:


Haydn Vol.11 57 59 65 10/10

If you love classical music you'd have to be insane not to be thrilled at the prospect of this year's commemoration of the 200th anniversary of Haydn's death: there's just so much great music to enjoy. Take this release. Does anyone really know or care about Symphony No. 57? Well, you should. First of all, it's a large piece, some 30 minutes with repeats observed. Second, as played here, with Haydn's original timpani part restored, it's sensationally exciting. The articulation of the strings in the prestissimo finale has to be heard to be believed–but then every movement reveals Haydn's inspiration operating at typically high voltage.

Both the "Fire" Symphony and No. 65 also feature virtuoso finales, with brilliant horn writing that Thomas Fey's players obviously relish. But the slow movements also delight (and never drag), and Fey's use of the harpsichord continuo, a habit that has no basis in historical fact and sounds just plain vile most of the time, is a model for how it should be done. He generally restricts the instrument to tutti passages (which of course renders its participation even more pointless) or touches in an important bass line, but never turns what ought to be a discreet accompaniment into a concertante extravaganza.

Generally speaking the playing is so astoundingly exciting that even this caveat matters not a whit. You will come away from these performances simply astounded by the richness and vitality of Haydn's inexhaustible powers of invention, which is exactly as it should be. Buy this brilliantly engineered disc, savor it, and look forward to the next installment. 10/10


Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

And yet he never criticizes the band's natural horns, even when they are playing at Fey's most extreme speeds. It's that contradiction that makes his review's maddening, and makes viewing him as a dolt possible    On the other hand, he'll write things like this which make me love the man:


Haydn Vol.11 57 59 65 10/10

If you love classical music you'd have to be insane not to be thrilled at the prospect of this year's commemoration of the 200th anniversary of Haydn's death: there's just so much great music to enjoy. Take this release. Does anyone really know or care about Symphony No. 57? Well, you should. First of all, it's a large piece, some 30 minutes with repeats observed. Second, as played here, with Haydn's original timpani part restored, it's sensationally exciting. The articulation of the strings in the prestissimo finale has to be heard to be believed–but then every movement reveals Haydn's inspiration operating at typically high voltage.

Both the "Fire" Symphony and No. 65 also feature virtuoso finales, with brilliant horn writing that Thomas Fey's players obviously relish. But the slow movements also delight (and never drag), and Fey's use of the harpsichord continuo, a habit that has no basis in historical fact and sounds just plain vile most of the time, is a model for how it should be done. He generally restricts the instrument to tutti passages (which of course renders its participation even more pointless) or touches in an important bass line, but never turns what ought to be a discreet accompaniment into a concertante extravaganza.

Generally speaking the playing is so astoundingly exciting that even this caveat matters not a whit. You will come away from these performances simply astounded by the richness and vitality of Haydn's inexhaustible powers of invention, which is exactly as it should be. Buy this brilliantly engineered disc, savor it, and look forward to the next installment. 10/10


Sarge

Yeah, I know, it's like 'Angel Dave' comes out of hiding on occasion, while 'Devil Dave' is there most of the time. Of course, I fully realize you like this review because he agrees with you about continuo. This time.

[Sergeant Rock]

Yeah, I know, it's like 'Angel Dave' comes out of hiding on occasion, while 'Devil Dave' is there most of the time. Of course, I fully realize you like this review because he agrees with you about continuo. This time.

  yeah, his review of Vol.11 was the last completely positive review he's given Fey. It's been downhill ever since 

Vol.12 (48 56) 7/9

Vol. 13 (93 96 97) 6/9

Vol. 14 (31 Horn Concertos) 6/9

Vol. 16 (90 92)  7/9


Sarge

[Jo498]

I recently got the 57/59/65 disc (because I had forgotten that I had 57/65 already on a promotional disc with the 1st horn concerto...) I will have to compare it to some other recordings, but while I like 65 (and probably 57, do not really know the piece all that well) I am not quite convinced by the "fire" (the piece on the disc I believe to know best). Fey is too fast and sounds rather small scale in the first movement. He has also some exaggerated slowing downs (I think before the recap in i and also in ii). As said in the other thread, this is typical of my Fey experience: Some things are great and he obviously takes great care with details. But other things are just too mannered and outré for my taste.

Thanks for the "dark horse" recs so far. I have the "Haydn's Horns" disc and will put the violin/viola duos on my wishlist (it is kind of expensive and I am also not really sure whether I like two fiddles only). Of the Lira pieces I have the "DeLirium" disc, but not the Archbudelli & Co (these are the Flute/Oboe arrangement?)
Probably Gurn has explained the history and different version of those Lira works somewhere already...?

[Gurn Blanston]

I think I did post about some background of the 8 notturnos, but will happily do so again this weekend if you are still interested. The short answer to your question is that L'Archibudelli play the London versions; that is, the ones without a lira. When Haydn went to London he had a contractual obligation to provide at least one new piece for each concert, of which there were many. He knew the notturni were fine music, and also that there would not be any lira there, so he rescored them;

Originals: 2 Lire organizzate, 2 Clarinets, 2 Horns, 2 Violas & Basso

London:  Flute, Oboe, 2 Violins 2 Horns, 2 Violas, Cello & Basso

As far as I know, he only rescored 5 or 6 of them, but the L'Archibudelli disk has all 8 of them on it, so maybe the others were found later on. There are some papers available, except I can't read Japanese...

I know that many people's tastes are too sophisticated for galant pre-Classical chamber music, but I have to tell you, I listen to these two frequently and always with great enjoyment:



I would have been delighted when I was exploring less mainstream Haydn to have someone rec these disks to me.

[kishnevi]

If I recall correctly, the famous Mr.Anonymous was responsible for the other arrangements of the Notturnos.

Received 32 CDs of Haydn today from JPC:  Festetics and Bruggen.

I can not tell if the Festetics liner notes are new or simply reprints of the original.  The English version is here.
http://issuu.com/elvanden/docs/a_378_booklet_web-link?e=6026233/9618736

French, German and Italian versions also available (Outhere's website... Click on Arcana, and the new box is featured.)

Bruggen contains only a track listing.

[Gurn Blanston]

If I recall correctly, the famous Mr.Anonymous was responsible for the other arrangements of the Notturnos.

Received 32 CDs of Haydn today from JPC:  Festetics and Bruggen.

I can not tell if the Festetics liner notes are new or simply reprints of the original.  The English version is here.
http://issuu.com/elvanden/docs/a_378_booklet_web-link?e=6026233/9618736

French, German and Italian versions also available (Outhere's website... Click on Arcana, and the new box is featured.)

Bruggen contains only a track listing.

Probably so. I simply can't remember OTTOMH! 

That's outstanding!  Great glut of great music, you can't beat that!  Just scanning through the notes on the string quartets, they do look like the originals, merely reformatted. Which is a good thing, since Somfai is probably the top musicologist to come out of Hungary, and a Haydn specialist. Good stuff there.

Happy listenings!

[Gurn Blanston]

I can be tragically overemotional, as you all know, flying off the handle at the slightest provocation. And the provocation provided by slight of symphonies 76-81 provides a bit of fodder for this week's essay. Not only are recordings thin on the ground, it was even hard to find reference material!   But I dug up a few items, hope you enjoy them.

The real London Symphonies!?!

Thanks,