Haydn's Haus

[Jo498]

I think op.76 and 77 are almost like the "London" symphonies, so some of them get played quite frequently despite lacking a nickname.

(I am not a frequent concertgoer but I encountered op.20/2 for the first time live in a performance by a lay quartet a friend of mine played with. I had heard a handful or so of "late" Haydn quartets, like Fifths or Emperor but not any from op.20 I had put off as "early" (which is not really true, of course), so I was surprised what a great piece that was, even in a semi-professional performance.)

[Karl Henning]

I think op.76 and 77 are almost like the "London" symphonies, so some of them get played quite frequently despite lacking a nickname.

(I am not a frequent concertgoer but I encountered op.20/2 for the first time live in a performance by a lay quartet a friend of mine played with. I had heard a handful or so of "late" Haydn quartets, like Fifths or Emperor but not any from op.20 I had put off as "early" (which is not really true, of course) [...]

Yes;  most peculiarly, "Papa" is probably the least understood Major Composer.

[Wakefield]

Yes;  most peculiarly, "Papa" is probably the least understood Major Composer.

I believe (and don't pretend to convince anybody about it) that this is founded on two principal reasons:

1.- XXth Century respected orchestral and symphonic music as the greatest sign of true musical genius, and

2.- Haydn's orchestral and symphonic music is particularly refractory (much more than Mozart, for instance) to modern orchestral sound. Just after some heavy "adjustments", we are really listening to Haydn again, even played on modern instruments. 

[Karl Henning]

I believe (and don't pretend to convince anybody about it) that this is founded on two principal reasons:

1.- XXth Century respected orchestral and symphonic music as the greatest sign of true musical genius, and

2.- Haydn's orchestral and symphonic music is particularly refractory (much more than Mozart, for instance) to modern orchestral sound. Just after some heavy "adjustments", we are really listening to Haydn again, even played on modern instruments. 

Both those are certainly fair points.

[Gurn Blanston]

Both those are certainly fair points.

Amen.  0:)

[Pat B]

How will you remember all those names??

Oh, it will only be about a thousand.

Just FYI; the plague even extends to the Baryton Trios!    #97, the so called 'Birthday Trio' appears on every single baryton trio disk I have, except in multiple sets where it only appears on one disk of the set. I personally own 10 versions of it. Want one?   

One down, 125 to go!

[Sergeant Rock]

I dub Symphony 91 "The Hesitant" based on the Largo opening and the way the subsequent Allegro kind of sneaks in as though not quite sure of itself 

Sarge

[Florestan]

I believe (and don't pretend to convince anybody about it) that this is founded on two principal reasons:

1.- XXth Century respected orchestral and symphonic music as the greatest sign of true musical genius,

Aren't 104 instances of orchestral and symphonic music of the highest quality enough? 

2.- Haydn's orchestral and symphonic music is particularly refractory (much more than Mozart, for instance) to modern orchestral sound. Just after some heavy "adjustments", we are really listening to Haydn again, even played on modern instruments.

So basically Antal Dorati was a failure, right? 

IMNSHO Haydn's neglect and/or misunderstanding has got nothing to do with forces, and everything to do with (musical & political) philosophy --- Eszterhazy Miklos vs Stalin Joseph, or Joseph II vs F. D. Roosevelt... 

[Madiel]

How will you remember all those names??

All of my pop albums have names. Seems to work okay.

[Sergeant Rock]

So basically Antal Dorati was a failure, right?                         

So was Szell and Bernstein apparently 

Sarge

[Wakefield]

So was Szell and Bernstein apparently 

Sarge

Believe it or not, when I did write that, I positively knew that the first name that will come to your mind will be Szell.

[Florestan]

Believe it or not, when I did write that, I positively knew that the first name that will come to your mind would be Szell.

I defy any HIPster of fame to (have) come up with horns more glorious than Szell. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Believe it or not, when I did write that, I positively knew that the first name that will come to your mind will be Szell.

There could be no other    But seriously, he (and Cleveland) really did keep the fire burning. It's astonishing how many times Haydn was programmed in the 50s, 60s and on into the 70s in Cleveland. For a time they really were the world's greatest Haydn/Mozart band.

(I missed a rare performance of the Stumbling Goat with Dorati in 1980. I was transferred to Germany just a few months before it took place  )

Sarge

[Florestan]

There could be no other   

Dorati!!!...   

[Sergeant Rock]

Dorati!!!...   

Well, okay...maybe 

Sarge

[Florestan]

Op. 50... Haydn rawks!!!

[Florestan]

Well, okay...maybe 

Thanks. 

[Wakefield]

Aren't 104 instances of orchestral and symphonic music of the highest quality enough? 

So basically Antal Dorati was a failure, right? 

IMNSHO Haydn's neglect and/or misunderstanding has got nothing to do with forces, and everything to do with (musical & political) philosophy --- Eszterhazy Miklos vs Stalin Joseph, or Joseph II vs F. D. Roosevelt... 

You know, dear Andrei, at least I hope so, you're one of my favorite persons on this board; but sometimes I have a hard time deciding if you're being serious or just mocking. So many "smiles" are often hard to handle! 

Whatever, I see Dorati in a similar way as I see Walcha (20 years before) if I think of Bach's organ music. What some people call "pre-authentic"; a conductor who started the adjustments I referred in my previous post.

IMO, if someone says that during the XXth Century, Haydn was generally regarded as a composer of the same importance than Mozart and Beethoven; this person would be being, as a matter of fact, highly inaccurate. The same for those who deny the influence of the HIP movement on the revaluation of Haydn's music (Hogwood and Pinnock were, to mention just two names, essential). Haydn's struggle to regain its rightful place on Parnassus has been tough (and started just in the 70s), and still is occurring, as our Gurn recalls us with his essays,. But it's just my opinion.

[Gurn Blanston]

Op. 50... Haydn rawks!!!

Well, you've said something I can agree with. Not sure it's a wash though...

[Wakefield]

There could be no other    But seriously, he (and Cleveland) really did keep the fire burning. It's astonishing how many times Haydn was programmed in the 50s, 60s and on into the 70s in Cleveland. For a time they really were the world's greatest Haydn/Mozart band.

(I missed a rare performance of the Stumbling Goat with Dorati in 1980. I was transferred to Germany just a few months before it took place  )

Sarge

It's not a surprise: Szell was a magnificent rara avis. Actually, my favourite conductor among those (that I know) conducting between the 50s and 60s. Well, maybe only challenged by Bruno Walter.