Haydn's Haus

[Florestan]

Excerpt from

Louis Spohr´s Autobiography, translated from German

Longman, Green, Longman, Roberts & Green 1865

p. 46

(Place: St. Petersburg

Time: 1803)

On the other hand a performance of Haydn´s "Seasons" which was given for the benefit of a widow´s fund (also during Lent) was very well attended. [...] The orchestra was larger than any I had yet attended. It consisted of seventy violins, thirty bass and double sets of wind instruments. The whole was therefore something very grand and my diary mentions it with delight; as also of the work itself, which I then heard for the first time, although I estimated the "Creation" yet higher (author´s highlight)

Online here: https://books.google.ro/books?id=WHRKAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=louis+spohr&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=louis%20spohr&f=false

Sarge, our preference for Karajan´s Creation is vindicated with a vengeance (pun intended) 

[Gurn Blanston]

Excerpt from

Louis Spohr´s Autobiography, translated from German

Longman, Green, Longman, Roberts & Green 1865

p. 46

(Place: St. Petersburg

Time: 1803)

On the other hand a performance of Haydn´s "Seasons" which was given for the benefit of a widow´s fund (also during Lent) was very well attended. [...] The orchestra was larger than any I had yet attended. It consisted of seventy violins, thirty bass and double sets of wind instruments. The whole was therefore something very grand and my diary mentions it with delight; as also of the work itself, which I then heard for the first time, although I estimated the "Creation" yet higher (author´s highlight)

Online here: https://books.google.ro/books?id=WHRKAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=louis+spohr&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=louis%20spohr&f=false

Sarge, our preference for Karajan´s Creation is vindicated with a vengeance (pun intended) 

I know Karajan was pretty old when he died, but 1803; that would be in vampire's years!   

Although if you are just talking about Big Band Haydn, most HIP/PI bands play it with big forces too, it is an oratorio, after all,  and not a chamber one either!   



PS - this would be worth your while, since you have that book available: somewhere in there, Spohr talks about Beethoven playing one of his concertos at a public performance, and he was leading the orchestra from the piano. I swear, it is about he funniest music related thing I ever read. It doesn't make fun of his deafness, but it does poke pretty hard about his impatience. 

[Florestan]

I know Karajan was pretty old when he died, but 1803; that would be in vampire's years!   

Don´t thread on Scion7´s land! 

Although if you are just talking about Big Band Haydn, most HIP/PI bands play it with big forces too, it is an oratorio, after all,  and not a chamber one either!   

Why can´t you just fairplay--ishly admit defeat? 

Seventy violins, thirty bass and double sets of winds makes for about 150 players, excluding the soloists and the chorus, in 1803 AD --- far exceeding Berlioz´s wildest dreams for the premiere of La damnation de Faust in 1846 AD.

[Florestan]

PS - this would be worth your while, since you have that book available: somewhere in there, Spohr talks about Beethoven playing one of his concertos at a public performance, and he was leading the orchestra from the piano. I swear, it is about he funniest music related thing I ever read. It doesn't make fun of his deafness, but it does poke pretty hard about his impatience. 

I can hardly wait for that part. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Don´t thread on Scion7´s land! 

Why can´t you just fairplay--ishly admit defeat? 

Seventy violins, thirty bass and double sets of winds makes for about 150 players, excluding the soloists and the chorus --- far exceeding Berlioz´s wildest dreams for the premiere of La damnation de Faust.

Karajan didn't really play it that big, did he? Isn't that a bit OTT?  Even with his best whip and chair, I don't think anyone can get 70 violins to play to his impossible standards. However, when you are talking about double winds, quadruple strings, etc. it's all relative, isn't it? I'll see how big Gardiner plays it and get back to you.

[Gurn Blanston]

I can hardly wait for that part. 

I've read the quoted page in another book and they said it was from Spohr's autobiography, so you should run up on it soon enough. Hint: he knocks one of the page-turner boys on his ass by mistake with a wild swing of his arm at the orchestra... 

[Florestan]

Karajan didn't really play it that big, did he? Isn't that a bit OTT? 

Well, by Spohr´s standards Karajan was HIP. 

Even with his best whip and chair, I don't think anyone can get 70 violins to play to his impossible standards.

I (educatedly) infer that by "violins" Spohr meant first violins, second violins and violas, and that by "bass" he meant cellos and double basses.

However, when you are talking about double winds, quadruple strings, etc. it's all relative, isn't it?

As per Wikipedia on The Creation:

The oratorio is scored for three vocal soloists (soprano (S), tenor (T), and bass (B), with an incidental solo for alto (A) in the finale), four-part chorus (soprano, alto, tenor, bass), and a large Classical orchestra consisting of 3 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, contrabassoon, 2 horns, 2 trumpets, alto, tenor, and bass trombones, timpani, and the usual string sections of first and second violins, violas, cellos, and double basses. For the recitatives a harpsichord or fortepiano is also used.

Now, you do the math according to Spohr --- actually, according to St. Petersburg´s Court Orchestra 1803... 

[Scion7]

I know Karajan was pretty old when he died, but 1803; that would be in vampire's years!   

Don´t thread on Scion7´s land! 

Over the course of the centuries we will have many discussions . . .
the long years of many winters . . .

[jlaurson]

Sarge, our preference for Karajan´s Creation is vindicated with a vengeance (pun intended) 

That's how McCreesh recorded the Creation and it's magnificent!!! (Best of 2008, #5: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/12/best-recordings-of-2008.html)

[Gurn Blanston]

That's how McCreesh recorded the Creation and it's magnificent!!! (Best of 2008, #5: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/12/best-recordings-of-2008.html)

Agreed. It is, in fact, the version I recommended at the beginning of this whole thing. I know he is working on a new 'Seasons' now, I'm hoping he intends it the same way. 

[Old Listener]

Being picky:

Paris Symphonies 82-87: Fey and the Heidelbergers

Symphonies 6-8: Müllejans and Freiburger Barock

The Creation: Karajan/Berlin Phil (yeah, I know...go ahead, shoot me  )

Quartets Op.33: Appónyi Quartet

Paris Symphonies 82-87: Bruggen / Orchestra of the 18th Century

Symphonies 6-8: Chmura /National Arts Center Orchestra

The Creation: Fruhbeck de Burgos / Philharmonia Orchestra

Quartets Op.33: Appónyi Quartet

[Gurn Blanston]

Thank you, sir, very kind, I'm sure.

Not to be picky, but I would far rather go:

'Paris' Symphonies 82-87 (Harnoncourt/ Concentus musicus Wien - DHM)

Symphonies 6-8 (Kuijken, Accent)

The Creation (McCreesh, Arkiv)

Quartets Op.33 (London Haydn Quartet, Hyperion)

But hey, that's just me.   

I'll hold 'em...

[Florestan]

Spohr´s Memoirs are a treasure trove!

Frankenhausen Music Festival, 1809

The Creation

Soloists: STB
Choir: S(28)A(20)T(20)B(30)
Orchestra: 106 members

Grand total 207

[Gurn Blanston]

I don't suppose anyone wants to listen to an interview with Gurn, but in the event you are up for it, this one is pretty good. The interviewer is in Taipei, Taiwan, so we had to talk really loudly, but it worked out well in the end! 

[George]

If I may be allowed a brief off topic post, these are shelves that my girlfriend installed last week. (The ones I mention earlier in this thread.)

[Autumn Leaves]

If I may be allowed a brief off topic post, these are shelves that my girlfriend installed last week. (The ones I mention earlier in this thread.)

Hey George, I was just viewing these pictures on SHF - I think your collection looks fantastic!

[Wakefield]

I don't suppose anyone wants to listen to an interview with Gurn, but in the event you are up for it, this one is pretty good. The interviewer is in Taipei, Taiwan, so we had to talk really loudly, but it worked out well in the end! 

Thanks, Gurn!!! It's great hear your voice after some years of written conversations...   

BTW, the sound is crystal clear.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks, Gurn!!! It's great hear your voice after some years of written conversations...   

BTW, the sound is crystal clear.

Thanks, Gordo. I had a very nice time doing that interview. I may have even made a new Haydnista!

[Gurn Blanston]

If I may be allowed a brief off topic post, these are shelves that my girlfriend installed last week. (The ones I mention earlier in this thread.)

Very nice, George. That's a good chunk of shelf in a small space!

[George]

Very nice, George. That's a good chunk of shelf in a small space!

Thanks! And thanks, Conor!