Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

[Mirror Image]

"not a Boulez convert" or "now a Boulez convert", John? 

Be it as it may, I'm glad you're finding enjoyment and things to admire in Boulez's music. You know how partial I am to his music, which IMHO is one of the pinnacles of music as an art form.

Obviously, now a Boulez convert. Thanks, Rafael, yes, I'm really enjoying Boulez's sound-world and enjoy getting lost in it. Again, the textures, colors, etc. are extraordinary and are reason to give him serious consideration, which is something I ignorantly didn't do in the beginning.

[San Antone]

I enjoy everything I've heard but Eclat is my favorite.  There is a film about it, that is very much worthwhile to see for anyone interested in Boulez.  Sur Incises also stick out in my mind as a favorite.

[Mirror Image]

I enjoy everything I've heard but Eclat is my favorite.  There is a film about it, that is very much worthwhile to see for anyone interested in Boulez.  Sur Incises also stick out in my mind as a favorite.

Sur Incises is a work I referred to as 'a gamelan orchestra filtered through the Second Viennese School' in an earlier post I made today and, yes, it's a fine work, indeed. Funny you mentioned that Juxtaposition documentary on Eclat, because I bought it earlier today.

[San Antone]

Sur Incises is a work I referred to as 'a gamelan orchestra filtered through the Second Viennese School' in an earlier post I made today and, yes, it's a fine work, indeed. Funny you mentioned that Juxtaposition documentary on Eclat, because I bought it earlier today.

That film, more than any other source I've read, was very informative about Boulez and his process of composition.  I hope you enjoy it.

[Mandryka]

He revised many of his works throughout his life.

The diffence is that with the Livre what Boulez did is more like a rewrite than a revision or an orchestration -- rewrite is indeed the concept Boulez himself used to describe what he had done in an interview in 2000. In fact it's many years since I heard the first Livre, but Boulez's revision -- which was still not completely finished when he died -- has been commercially recorded by Diotima Quartet. If you're interested I can let you have the recording, which was recenly very hard to find. It is, in my opinion, magnificent.

[Mirror Image]

That film, more than any other source I've read, was very informative about Boulez and his process of composition.  I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks, San Antone.

[Mirror Image]

The diffence is that with the Livre what Boulez did is more like a rewrite than a revision or an orchestration -- rewrite is indeed the concept Boulez himself used to describe what he had done in an interview in 2000. In fact it's many years since I heard the first Livre, but Boulez's revision -- which was still not completely finished when he died -- has been commercially recorded by Diotima Quartet. If you're interested I can let you have the recording, which was recenly very hard to find. It is, in my opinion, magnificent.

Thanks for the offer, Mandryka, but there's so much I need to hear first.

[Iota]

It often seems in Boulez that there's a contained insanity behind all the exotic textures, and it can feel both intellectually rigorous and unhinged at the same time, something I find thrilling and intriguingly alien at times. Currently I'd say explosante-fixe, Sur Incises, Eclat, Le Marteau sans maitre and Repons rank particularly highly in my affections.

[Mandryka]

It often seems in Boulez that there's a contained insanity behind all the exotic textures, and it can feel both intellectually rigorous and unhinged at the same time, something I find thrilling and intriguingly alien at times.

One of the things I've been listening to recently is an example of this - the orchestrations he made of Notations. Gielen recorded them. In truth I'm not sure what to make of his music for large ensemble, it's so sensual, so full of catchy themes and and foot tapping rhythms, it's almost decadent! The orchestrated notations have something in common with Richard Strauss!

[Mirror Image]

It often seems in Boulez that there's a contained insanity behind all the exotic textures, and it can feel both intellectually rigorous and unhinged at the same time, something I find thrilling and intriguingly alien at times. Currently I'd say explosante-fixe, Sur Incises, Eclat, Le Marteau sans maitre and Repons rank particularly highly in my affections.

A contained insanity? Hmmm...I like it! I should use this phrase on a bumper sticker.

[Symphonic Addict]

The only work (other than his piano sonatas) I've tried of this composer is Le Marteau sans maïtre and I thought it was fascinating but uneasy at once. Are there other works of his that sound more approachable?

[Mirror Image]

The only work (other than his piano sonatas) I've tried of this composer is Le Marteau sans maïtre and I thought it was fascinating but uneasy at once. Are there any works of his that sound more approachable?

Of the works I've heard so far, I wouldn't say any of them are approachable, because, for me, this implies that one can start listening without any adjustment on the listener's part. I think a listener needs to go into listening to Boulez's music with some kind of understanding of what they're about to listen to. I really would like to get to the song cycles, Le Marteau sans maître and Pli selon Pli. Mallarmé, like Debussy and Ravel, seemed to be an influence on Boulez and it might be interesting to program Debussy and Ravel with one of these Boulez works. It seems that ...explosante-fixe... is a work that gets recommended the most to newcomers. It seems several members here suggested this be the first work someone should hear first. Of course, I ignored them, because I had already heard Répons about 7-8 years ago. I really liked this work, but for whatever reason, I felt during that time I wasn't prepared for Boulez just yet.

[Symphonic Addict]

Of the works I've heard so far, I wouldn't say any of them are approachable, because, for me, this implies that one can start listening without any adjustment on the listener's part. I think a listener needs to go into listening to Boulez's music with some kind of understanding of what they're about to listen to. I really would like to get to the song cycles, Le Marteau sans maître and Pli selon Pli. Mallarmé, like Debussy and Ravel, seemed to be an influence on Boulez and it might be interesting to program Debussy and Ravel with one of these Boulez works. It seems that ...explosante-fixe... is a work that gets recommended the most to newcomers. It seems several members here suggested this be the first work someone should hear first. Of course, I ignored them, because I had already heard Répons about 7-8 years ago. I really liked this work, but for whatever reason, I felt during that time I wasn't prepared for Boulez just yet.

Interesting response, John. Thank you. His stuff is, somehow, in my view, intellectual and artistic rather than 'easy' and instantly enjoyable, hence its peculiar merit. The music's secrets are not unveiled on first hearings at all. Something similar happened to me with Schonberg and Carter.

[San Antone]

Currently I'd say explosante-fixe, Sur Incises, Eclat, Le Marteau sans maitre and Repons rank particularly highly in my affections.

I would say that these three works would be a good entry point to Boulez for a newbie.

[vers la flamme]

Great to have you on the team, John You will find much to love in both Le Marteau and Pli selon pli but I can see the latter being particularly up your alley.

I have been loving some Boulez as of late too: the piano Notations, the Deuxième sonate, and I just got this great CD today:



I want to say thanks to whoever it was here that originally recommended it to me. (I want to say it was Ritter)—damn good! I always appreciate hearing Boulez sans Boulez.

[petrarch]

Sur Incises is a work I referred to as 'a gamelan orchestra filtered through the Second Viennese School' in an earlier post I made today and, yes, it's a fine work, indeed. Funny you mentioned that Juxtaposition documentary on Eclat, because I bought it earlier today.

Then you will enjoy the documentary on Sur Incises greatly, particularly if you compare it to Incises, the solo piano work from which it was derived. Sur Incises is not only is a grand extrapolation on Incises, but also on the piano sound itself, with each type of instrument representing one of 3 facets of a piano (the strings, the hammers, the keys, IIRC).

I find Boulez's music exquisitely sensual and he's one of my favorite composers.

[Mirror Image]

Interesting response, John. Thank you. His stuff is, somehow, in my view, intellectual and artistic rather than 'easy' and instantly enjoyable, hence its peculiar merit. The music's secrets are not unveiled on first hearings at all. Something similar happened to me with Schonberg and Carter.

Funny you mentioned Carter as he's a composer that just fails to engage me on any kind of level. I've tried to wrap my head around some of his music, but I should probably revisit those SQs which are quite acclaimed. One of the nice things about Boulez is he's like colorist in many regards. It seems he paints with a carefully considered brush --- only the finest bristles, paints, and so forth. This is music that somehow exists in the mind's eye but is able to touch on certain emotional states that many other composers of the same time aren't quite able to achieve.

[Mirror Image]

Great to have you on the team, John You will find much to love in both Le Marteau and Pli selon pli but I can see the latter being particularly up your alley.

I have been loving some Boulez as of late too: the piano Notations, the Deuxième sonate, and I just got this great CD today:



I want to say thanks to whoever it was here that originally recommended it to me. (I want to say it was Ritter)—damn good! I always appreciate hearing Boulez sans Boulez.

It's good to be in the company of the forum's Boulezians. That Naive recording looks like a great disc. Has any heard the newer Barenboim recording?

[asin]B01MZAVQGM[/asin]

[San Antone]

Elliott Carter is a composer whose music enchanted me from the first moment I heard the 2nd string quartet.  I'd have to say that I put him a little above Boulez in my pantheon of composers.  For one reason, he wrote so much more music than Boulez, and there is so much there to investigate.

[Mirror Image]

Then you will enjoy the documentary on Sur Incises greatly, particularly if you compare it to Incises, the solo piano work from which it was derived. Sur Incises is not only is a grand extrapolation on Incises, but also on the piano sound itself, with each type of instrument representing one of 3 facets of a piano (the strings, the hammers, the keys, IIRC).

I find Boulez's music exquisitely sensual and he's one of my favorite composers.

Looking forward to the documentary, indeed. Good to know you like his music so much. I may have some questions down the road for you and others here.