Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

[Karl Henning]

You don't get extra points for being "anguished," still less when so much is handed you on a platter. Viz. conducting, well, that was his own choice, wasn't it? He was always more energetic as a propagandist than as a creator.

[San Antone]

You don't get extra points for being "anguished," still less when so much is handed you on a platter. Viz. conducting, well, that was his own choice, wasn't it? He was always more energetic as a propagandist than as a creator.

In a film about Boulez (I forget which one) he talks a bit about this choice.  He said, if IIRC, that since composing, per se, does not really pay until you begin to have commissions, the career choices for composers generally fall down to two: teacher or performer/conductor.  Since he did not have much interest in obtaining an academic position, that left conducting.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I do think he considers himself a composer first - but his conducting career took off, and much like Bernstein - chose to not turn down a lucrative post(s) when offered.

[Mirror Image]

I don't think any of us are in the position to judge what Boulez has done with his dual career as a composer and conductor. Notice how I put composer before conductor. While he has mentioned many, many times how fortunate he was to continue to be able to conduct, he is still first and foremost a composer. It doesn't matter really if he's composed 15 works. What matters is the quality of the music and not the quantity. Look at Dutilleux. He didn't exactly churn out the music did he? Who really cares in the end? If the music touches us, we should be grateful that this composer has even taken the time to write at all.

[Karl Henning]

In a film about Boulez (I forget which one) he talks a bit about this choice.  He said, if IIRC, that since composing, per se, does not really pay until you begin to have commissions, the career choices for composers generally fall down to two: teacher or performer/conductor.  Since he did not have much interest in obtaining an academic position, that left conducting.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I do think he considers himself a composer first - but his conducting career took off, and much like Bernstein - chose to not turn down a lucrative post(s) when offered.

Aye, all that is plain sense.

[Mirror Image]

We realize that. And you forgot founder/director of musical institutions. Anyhow .. some of us who have been following his entire career closely for a long, long time (or since the beginning) CARE .. and are always eager for more from this artist - that's all. Understand?

I didn't forget anything, James. Making a mountain out of a molehill again I see.

[Karl Henning]

Portraits in Sycophancy 

[Octave]

I haven't seen this disc mentioned in the thread; does anyone have an opinion on it, esp. relative to the other performances (notably Jumppanen, Pollini, Biret, etc)?

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Boulez: NOTATIONS AND PIANO SONATAS [Pi-Hsien Chen] (hatART, 2011)

I became interested in her Boulez after running across mention of this OOP Telos disc with her (older?) recordings of the Douze notations and the Third Sonata, plus an enticing effort at the craggy Barraque sonata.  Unfortunately this disc is rather expensive now.  [Edit: the back cover the of the hatART mentions that Douze notations were recorded in 1997, so maybe that recording overlaps from the Telos release; the three hatART Sonatas were recorded 2002/4.]

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[CRCulver]

Anyone familiar with how Universal Edition has locked down the rights for Boulez's works? I'm curious if, once the maestro is no longer among us, musicians will be free to perform earlier versions of works (namely earlier versions of Pli selon pli, which I think has been expanded too far). While the various expansions might be Boulez's last word on the subject, I'd hate to think that they will forever be the only versions open for performance.

David Fray got to record the original 1994 version of Incises instead of the 2001 expansion, so that is a hopeful sign.

[Joaquimhock]

"Fragment d'une ébauche", Strasbourg, France september 2013, World Premeire, 24 seconds. Wilhelm Latchoumia, piano :

http://la-feuille-de-chou.fr/archives/56938

[lescamil]

"Fragment d'une ébauche", Strasbourg, France september 2013, World Premeire, 24 seconds. Wilhelm Latchoumia, piano :

http://la-feuille-de-chou.fr/archives/56938

Sounds a lot like Incises, his solo piano work that was expanded to Sur Incises. One wonders how he is coming along with his other music he is writing/revising, especially with his health seemingly a constant problem in his advanced age.

[CRCulver]

Yeah, very similar indeed to Incises. Too similar, really, almost like an extract of the earlier work with the exact same material (I'll have to get ahold of the score to this new work).

I finally gave Une page d'éphéméride a listen. I was very surprised how un-Boulezian it feels. It could have been written by Messiaen or Dutilleux.

[Mr Bloom]

Hu, this is from 2010, and this was a supposition from Machart, who isn't really reliable.
Is there anything new on the subject ?

[Mirror Image]

In 1952 Boulez met a man who possessed a comparable amount of genius, arrogance, and ambition -- Karlheinz Stockhausen.

For crying out loud, does every post you make have anything to do with any other composer besides Stockhausen? This is the Boulez thread, not the Stockhausen thread, James.

[Mirror Image]

Yea .. and the post is clearly about Boulez.

I guess you can't read either.

[Mirror Image]

The beauty of copy-and-paste.

[snyprrr]

Is now Boulez the last survivor?

Oh how the Mighty High Modernists have fallen.

The public would never have their music. Boulez is like the Obama of music?, forcing unpalatability as breakfast lunch, and dinner! Which of these Composers was NOT a scoffer of God Almighty? And then there was one...

My question is, Is the ethos of High Modernism- that feeling around 1969-71 that anything was possible- the electricity is the air- is it here now, or did it die around 1993 at the latest?

[Karl Henning]

Is now Boulez the last survivor?

You're just nervous about the new Wuorinen opera, aren't you?

[snyprrr]

Based on what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem likely IMO. Stuff I'm hearing being created these days (which isn't a lot mind you) is a mixture or derivative what has already been done .. However, there is more 'electricity' surrounding the works of the BIG post-war figures; the stuff is getting more and more attention as the generations turnover. Ligeti does well. Stockhausen's work is flourishing. The Yearlong Rest is Noise Festival was a resounding success - esp. the post-war "avant-garde" concerts. Boulez works performed during televised PROM series alongside Beethoven to record numbers. New recordings being issued & re-issued, growing internet activity .. all of this (and more) keep those flames burning. Have all of the major musical statements to posterity been made? In a way, being someone who is set in their musical ways for some time now .. I sort-of view JS Bach as the beginning and Stockhausen the end or a great, great run. Those posts and all the best in-between could keep us occupied indefinitely. Though I can easily imagine electronics & technology being the future more & more (even more than now!). The up & comers don't really have time on their side at this point, and it is much more difficult these days with all that history behind them, and the fact that music has to compete with so much these days, things are so fragmented, diverse .. a grand recontextualization is in order?

Huh,... you almost sound as thoughtful as me!?!?!

1) Yes, whilst Boulez breathes, you're right, just about all of his generation are really being revered as probably the greatest generation ever. Ligeti seems to have gotten the TeenBeat Award for "uh Dude, I Remember that from'2001'" PopPsych quotient. Frankly, Boulez & co. DID set themselves up for a great posterity- they mourished this whole new generation of conductors and ensembles which seem to have made it their lives' work to diseminate (I can't spell any word right with semen in it, ack!!) the masters' Woirks (just get on with it for the Xenakis Edition and be done with it already!!!- he seems to be the Fogerty of the bunch, haha)... anyhow, you get points for making it through that last sentence, 

2) The Future of Music: with computer music, they can probably woosh more information passed you ear than your brain can decipher, nano-speed stasis, that I think music will again (Joshua) be used as a weapon.

Music was never supposed to take the place of God.

3) The Age of Genius is Now Passed? What use is it when it couldn't achieve World Peace when it was poised to do so (or so it thought)?


I just wonder if Boulez is seeing his generation's Vision dying before his eyes? At least what I've gathered from some of these masters, they ended up a bitter bitter hellfruit basket. I mean, there ARE storires!! I'll give you, Stockhausen seems the more content among them, but, I mean, he really did write the Devils' Music, so, mm,...!!!???!!! There are stories of Xenakis being 'disillusioned'. Were they all just a bunch of commie utopian bastards bent on universal healthcare....aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.... ok, I feel better now!


My experience is that I don't personally like the people who love this High Modernism like we do. I DO like to think... well, mm, maybe not- that we could somewhat sit in a room and chat GMG without the Hegelian Dialectic happening. Maybe that's why there's a fForum? Why is this that I probably would loathe the company of these masters whose music I have (GROWN) to love?

[snyprrr]

Seriously .. he & the others devoted everything to music, & the great complexity, uniqueness (& beauty) found in a lot of the works (documented, preserved, built to last) will ensure continued future interest & study for centuries to come. And its never easy staying true to yourself, not succumbing to pressures, it takes an iron will. Artists in particular who bare all & stay true, are ridiculed and subject to criticism and scrutiny constantly & publicly .. so doubts and insecurities will set in.

Let's hope so. Have you seen "Idiocracy"?

I see your point though.

[Karl Henning]

Seriously .. he & the others devoted everything to music, & the great complexity, uniqueness (& beauty) found in a lot of the works (documented, preserved, built to last) will ensure continued future interest & study for centuries to come. And its never easy staying true to yourself, not succumbing to pressures, it takes an iron will. Artists in particular who bare all & stay true, are ridiculed and subject to criticism and scrutiny constantly & publicly .. so doubts and insecurities will set in.

On the face of it, all that is true. That said, I don't feel comfortable, lauding Boulez as A Great Man, for these things which are my own daily bread.