Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

Started by bhodges, January 17, 2008, 09:54:31 AM

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North Star

Quote from: James on December 24, 2013, 07:42:39 AM
Love him or hate him, one cannot deny that he is very accomplished & disciplined. A fine example of a human being in many ways imo.
Well at least he has grown, but I can't say he has been such a fine human being in his younger days. Extraordinary musician, though.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

There are so many options other than "love him or hate him";  that's just fan-boy jabber.

"A fine example of a human being"?  Well, considering the source of the remark . . . . ;)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

North Star

"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Mirror Image

#403
Quote from: James on December 25, 2013, 07:18:21 AM
And this is what I was speaking to, a man on the chosen path, achieving, realizing ambitions, staying true, very accomplished etc.; our friend karl can only dream.

Karl Henning has more talent in his pinky than you have in your entire body. That's why he's a composer and you're not. You sound like a complete fool, James.

Mirror Image

Quote from: James on December 25, 2013, 03:07:52 PM
The comparison was to Boulez obviously, not me.

I know, but what I'm saying is you're a fool for even trying to compare Boulez and Henning. Boulez is a gifted musician, no question about it, but so is Karl, but to make Boulez's accomplishments seem like they're much greater is purely moronic on your part, James. My understanding is that Karl is trying his hardest to promote his music, but, unfortunately, he also has to work for a living, too. Something Boulez may have an understanding of but hasn't really had to do other than to be conductor, which would be like the greatest job in the world. So, like I said, you can't compare the two, but one thing is for sure, you're the copy-and-paste whiz, so you definitely have mastered that skill. I tremble in your presence oh exulted one.

Mirror Image

Quote from: James on December 25, 2013, 03:27:21 PM
:)

Well, put it this way .. Boulez made very good with his time and was highly successful and accomplished on many fronts;
but who knows, our friend karl still has time on his side, at least.


Again, you're comparing two people that can't be compared. I can't speak for Karl, obviously, but I've spoken with Carl Vine on FB and he's said as long as he's composing, he's happy. Composers, like writers, must unburden themselves with what they're hearing in their minds and the fact that Karl has the ability to do this and put his thoughts to paper is nothing short than astounding. It's one thing not to like someone's music, which I dislike Boulez's, but it's another thing entirely to compare two different composers' accomplishments which you have so idiotically done.

ritter

On February 25th, at 8:00 pm Central European Time, the Cité de la Musique in Paris, is offering this interesting concert:

Présences 2014 Paris / Berlin

Jörg Widmann
     Armonica
Johannes Boris Borowski     
     Change
Pierre Boulez     
    Le visage nuptial

Chœur de femmes de Radio France, Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France
Pascal Rophé, conductor
Laura Aikin (soprano), Hilary Summers (contralto), Christa Schoenfeldinger (glass harmonica).

The concert will be streamed live by www.citedelamusiquelive.tv and www.medici.tv .

This is a rare opportunity to listen to Boulez's early, extremely lyrical cantata on René Char's poems.  :)

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Ken B

A fine human being? Not as I recall. And a deadly dull composer. But what a conductor!

CRCulver

Quote from: Ken B on February 14, 2014, 12:53:06 PM
A fine human being? Not as I recall.

While Boulez is infamous for some gadfly remarks, most made many decades ago, much classical music gossip since the 1970s has emphasized how charming and polite he is in person, in spite of the fearsome image. And then there are the composers who express their gratitude for the institutional support he obtained for them. A complex character, but certainly one that has his admirers.

QuoteAnd a deadly dull composer.

Considering that this thread is about Boulez as a composer, what's the point of coming here just to post a content-free negative opinion like that?

Karl Henning

Quote from: CRCulver on February 14, 2014, 09:42:32 PM
While Boulez is infamous for some gadfly remarks, most made many decades ago, much classical music gossip since the 1970s has emphasized how charming and polite he is in person, in spite of the fearsome image.

You mean he put on that turd-in-the-punchbowl act just for notoriety and publicity, to make a name for himself?  Which suggests that he's just a tawdry opportunist?  I am shocked, shocked, shocked, I tell you . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Cato

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 25, 2013, 03:32:37 PM
Again, you're comparing two people that can't be compared. I can't speak for Karl, obviously, but I've spoken with Carl Vine on FB and he's said as long as he's composing, he's happy. Composers, like writers, must unburden themselves with what they're hearing in their minds and the fact that Karl has the ability to do this and put his thoughts to paper is nothing short than astounding.

Karl Henning composing away in New England reminds one of that other Yankee, whose music was practically unknown and rarely played for a long time: how would people have judged Charles Ives at age 50?

A very good insurance man probably!   ;)   And probably because of his heart attack in his mid-40's, somehow the composing ability faded.  Thank heavens Karl is still producing assorted gems on a regular basis!

On Boulez being rather prickly, how unpleasant were certain other composers known to be?   Lully, Beethoven, Wagner, Bernard Herrmann, etc. ?   

And how about anger-management-challenged Carlo Gesualdo?   :o
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Ken B

Quote from: CRCulver on February 14, 2014, 09:42:32 PM

Considering that this thread is about Boulez as a composer, what's the point of coming here just to post a content-free negative opinion like that?

I could ask, considering how dull a composer he is what's the point of having a thread about him? But it appears I need to ask your permission first so I won't.

CRCulver

#413
Quote from: Ken B on February 15, 2014, 08:31:10 AM
I could ask, considering how dull a composer he is what's the point of having a thread about him?

Has it not occurred to you that people's musical tastes differ, and that not everyone finds Boulez "dull" like you? How autistic does one have to be to come to a place where fans are discussing something they enjoy and suggest that it has no value to anyone?

Ken B

Quote from: CRCulver on February 15, 2014, 09:06:03 AM
Has it not occurred to you that people's musical tastes differ, and that not everyone finds Boulez "dull" like you? How autistic does one have to be to come to a place where fans are discussing something they enjoy and suggest that it has no value to anyone?

Well sir I did no such thing. I expressed an opinion and I did it without attacking anyone. I expect you find odd. But mostly I was reacting to the claim he was a great human being. Compared to Ted Bundy? Sure. By normal standards? No.

not edward

Quote from: karlhenning on February 15, 2014, 04:20:07 AM
You mean he put on that turd-in-the-punchbowl act just for notoriety and publicity, to make a name for himself?  Which suggests that he's just a tawdry opportunist?  I am shocked, shocked, shocked, I tell you . . . .
I rather suspect it's also to do with the hyper-masculine environment of the early Darmstadt years. Boulez, Stockhausen and Nono were all playing alpha male, determined to lay down the direction of  new music and steamrollering any opposition in their way. As they grew older and (one hopes) wiser, this kind of competitive behaviour seemed to recede into the background (as did Boulez's compositional career).
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Pessoa

Are there alpha males in Urantia? If so, how do they compare to ours?

Ken B

Quote from: edward on February 15, 2014, 10:46:23 AM
I rather suspect it's also to do with the hyper-masculine environment of the early Darmstadt years. Boulez, Stockhausen and Nono were all playing alpha male, determined to lay down the direction of  new music and steamrollering any opposition in their way. As they grew older and (one hopes) wiser, this kind of competitive behaviour seemed to recede into the background (as did Boulez's compositional career).

They'd have been better served trying to influence the music of the future the way Debussy did it: by writing good music. Boringly conventional I know.

Pessoa

For me, Le marteau sans maitre is pretty good. So is Gruppen.

Cato

Quote from: CRCulver on February 15, 2014, 09:06:03 AM
Has it not occurred to you that people's musical tastes differ, and that not everyone finds Boulez "dull" like you? How autistic does one have to be to come to a place where fans are discussing something they enjoy and suggest that it has no value to anyone?


In general, when one finds a topic marked "Pierre Boulez," the assumption is that people who like the music of that composer will be the ones writing about it.

To be sure, one could write e.g. "I find your interest in the music of Boulez odd, because I find it deadly dull.  What specifically do you hear in it that so fascinates you?  Maybe I am missing something."

Then if, after reading any advice on what to listen for, and making another attempt at a work or two, one still finds it deadly dull, then one can write: "Well, thanks for explaining.  I still don't hear anything in it for me."

And then migrate toward a composer for whom one has an affinity.  0:)

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)