Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

[Ken B]

It is frankly hilarious on a thread about a man who dismissed almost all the music and composers of his lifetime as "useless" to hear complaints that some call his music dull.
Anyway folks my interest was in the absurd claim he was an admirable guy.

[(poco) Sforzando]

In general, when one finds a topic marked "Pierre Boulez," the assumption is that people who like the music of that composer will be the ones writing about it.

He has every right to express himself critically about any composer he wishes. Discussions about a composer should not be limited to cheerleading, and we don't need the kind of defensiveness that erupts when the merits of sacred cows like Havergal Brian and Joly Braga Santos are questioned. I myself am partial to much of Boulez's work, but there is some justification to Stravinsky's claim that Pli selon pli can be "pretty monotonous and monotonously pretty."

[Pessoa]

He has every right to express himself critically about any composer he wishes. Discussions about a composer should not be limited to cheerleading,

Agreed.

[amw]

I rather suspect it's also to do with the hyper-masculine environment of the early Darmstadt years. Boulez, Stockhausen and Nono were all playing alpha male, determined to lay down the direction of  new music and steamrollering any opposition in their way. As they grew older and (one hopes) wiser, this kind of competitive behaviour seemed to recede into the background (as did Boulez's compositional career).

I should hope this kind of macho posturing should be familiar to anyone who participates on GMG, particularly considering how many of you are engaging in it right now.

Boulez's music has always seemed somewhat cold and undifferentiated to me, but lately I've been enjoying the 2nd piano sonata more than I used to. It's almost like a Schubert or Mendelssohn to Barraqué's Beethoven (... almost).

[(poco) Sforzando]

For me, Le marteau sans maitre is pretty good. So is Gruppen.

I trust you're aware that Gruppen is by Stockhausen.

[Pessoa]

I trust you're aware that Gruppen is by Stockhausen.

Boulez and Stockhausen were both mentioned as two alpha-males who´d better try to influence the world by writing good music.

[Cato]

He has every right to express himself critically about any composer he wishes. Discussions about a composer should not be limited to cheerleading, and we don't need the kind of defensiveness that erupts when the merits of sacred cows like Havergal Brian and Joly Braga Santos are questioned. I myself am partial to much of Boulez's work, but there is some justification to Stravinsky's claim that Pli selon pli can be "pretty monotonous and monotonously pretty."

Nobody said anything different.  A person who dislikes a composer is free to explain his dislike of the composer in all sorts of ways: not all ways are equal however.

e.g. I recently explained why I thought a specific part of Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream Overture was weak. 

By explaining one's dislike with specific examples, the discourse is raised to a higher level.

But everyone can feel free not to do that!   0:)

[San Antone]

https://www.youtube.com/v/nu1u5uBe9So

Dérive I (1984)

The Ensemble Intercontemporain
Pierre Boulez, cond.

Pierre Boulez wrote Dérive in 1984. It is a six-minute chamber work for flute, clarinet, violin, cello, vibraphone, and piano which was spun out of sketches for a larger work from 1981, entitled Répons.

[Cato]

https://www.youtube.com/v/nu1u5uBe9So

Dérive I (1984)

The Ensemble Intercontemporain
Pierre Boulez, cond.

Pierre Boulez wrote Dérive in 1984. It is a six-minute chamber work for flute, clarinet, violin, cello, vibraphone, and piano which was spun out of sketches for a larger work from 1981, entitled Répons.

Many thanks for this example!

[Karl Henning]

I rather suspect it's also to do with the hyper-masculine environment of the early Darmstadt years. Boulez, Stockhausen and Nono were all playing alpha male, determined to lay down the direction of  new music and steamrollering any opposition in their way. As they grew older and (one hopes) wiser, this kind of competitive behaviour seemed to recede into the background (as did Boulez's compositional career).

Very sensible evaluation.

[Karl Henning]

For me, Le marteau sans maitre is pretty good. So is Gruppen.

Agreed.

[Mirror Image]

Karl Henning composing away in New England reminds one of that other Yankee, whose music was practically unknown and rarely played for a long time: how would people have judged Charles Ives at age 50?

A very good insurance man probably!      And probably because of his heart attack in his mid-40's, somehow the composing ability faded.  Thank heavens Karl is still producing assorted gems on a regular basis!

On Boulez being rather prickly, how unpleasant were certain other composers known to be?   Lully, Beethoven, Wagner, Bernard Herrmann, etc. ?   

And how about anger-management-challenged Carlo Gesualdo?   

As I told Karl before on his own composer thread, his time will come. Karl is amazingly prolific by contemporary standards.

[Cato]

As I told Karl before on his own composer thread, his time will come. Karl is amazingly prolific by contemporary standards.

And consider that a good amount of his composing, or at least initial sketching, takes place in public, not at a silent retreat in the mountains, or by a calm New England pond!

It would be an interesting question to know whether Karl's music would be different in any way, if he had a different process.

On Boulez: for some reason, he has not been prolific, motivated instead to revise/re-compose earlier works.  One might have expected a good number of major works in the last c. 40 years, certainly more than have appeared. I believe the 1970's saw no publications of a new work.

(However, who knows what might still be lurking in his desk?)  0:)

[Mr Bloom]

I rather suspect it's also to do with the hyper-masculine environment of the early Darmstadt years. Boulez, Stockhausen and Nono were all playing alpha male, determined to lay down the direction of  new music and steamrollering any opposition in their way. As they grew older and (one hopes) wiser, this kind of competitive behaviour seemed to recede into the background (as did Boulez's compositional career).

From the "gossip" I've heard, misogyny has not receded in the background in Boulez's behaviour.
About the competitive behaviour, why would he have such behaviour now, when he managed (with the help of all the people who wanted a place at the king's court) to crush politicaly, economicaly and socially any dissident voice in France. He's got no competition whatsoever, and he's got the institutions to protect him.

[Mr Bloom]

I occasionally wonder the same thing. Perhaps he has a few recently completed major works stashed away.

This is highly unlikely, as Boulez never wrote any major work.

[not edward]

I occasionally wonder the same thing. Perhaps he has a few recently completed major works stashed away.

One can hope. It's rather sad to realize that I went to the world premiere of sur Incises over 15 years ago, and the only major work since then has been the hyper-expanded version of Derive II (which didn't impress me at all).

[Ken B]

One can hope. It's rather sad to realize that I went to the world premiere of sur Incises over 15 years ago, and the only major work since then has been the hyper-expanded version of Derive II (which didn't impress me at all).

Sorry Edward, you can't say that. You have to explain, in detail, why it didn't impress you.

[Cato]

Sorry Edward, you can't say that. You have to explain, in detail, why it didn't impress you.

Not compulsory, but it would be nice!   

One can hope. It's rather sad to realize that I went to the world premiere of sur Incises over 15 years ago, and the only major work since then has been the hyper-expanded version of Derive II (which didn't impress me at all).

Sometimes the compulsion to create art just fades away, or the ability to be satisfied with what one has created in later years is lacking e.g. the Eighth Symphony of Sibelius.

[Ken B]

Does calling someone autistic count as nice Cato? No need to answer; it's clear Boulezian standards apply here. I have thoughtfully provided three quotes from the man himself.

[San Antone]

The most recent work I know about is a short (4') work for piano ~

Une Page d'Ephemeride (2005)

https://www.youtube.com/v/y4asMz_EVzg