Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

[petrarch]

Or a rival.

Nah. Boulez didn't feel that way towards Stockhausen, with whom there was much more overlap, so he wouldn't feel in any way threatened by Cage.

[Ken B]

Nah. Boulez didn't feel that way towards Stockhausen, with whom there was much more overlap, so he wouldn't feel in any way threatened by Cage.

Not much of a rival actually when you look at influence or $ either.
Cage did tend to quarrel with people, because he was pretty blunt.

[snyprrr]

Kudos to me that I didn't automatically think... you know!

[ritter]

Looks like this "all-Boulez, only-Boulez" recital by Mr. Kigawa was very special indeed!  Pity New York is so far away from Madrid...

I notice (with great pleasure) that , more and more, reviews of Pierre Boulez's music move away from (only) using terms such as "cerebral", "experimental" and "mathematical", to include expressions such "gentleness", "sensual", "delicate", "colorful" and "solemn beauty". Because, for me at least, this is profoundly beautiful music....

Thanks for the reviews, James!

Regards,

[ritter]

I have been longing for a new Boulez piece .. it's been too long. 

I'm hoping with his 90th birthday, something new will be premiered. Just one last piece. (fingers crossed)

Well, Boulez has been working on some additional orchestrations of the Douze Notations, and in the booklet of the "Complete Works - Work in Progress" box on DG issued last year, Claude Samuel mentioned that some 11 minutes of Dérive 3 were already composed...and who knows, perhaps the Waiting for Godot opera may really be in the making (I know, this is wishful thinking, but....)...

[EigenUser]

Well, Boulez has been working on some additional orchestrations of the Douze Notations, and in the booklet of the "Complete Works - Work in Progress" box on DG issued last year, Claude Samuel mentioned that some 11 minutes of Dérive 3 were already composed...and who knows, perhaps the Waiting for Godot opera may really be in the making (I know, this is wishful thinking, but....)...

Well, Boulez has been working on some additional orchestrations of the Douze Notations, and in the booklet of the "Complete Works - Work in Progress" box on DG issued last year, Claude Samuel mentioned that some 11 minutes of Dérive 3 were already composed...and who knows, perhaps the Waiting for Godot opera may really be in the making (I know, this is wishful thinking, but....)...

I'd like to see more of the Notations orchestrated. I think that they make a more-than-worthy (although late) addition to the trio of the Schoenberg/Berg/Webern Funf/Drei/Sechs Orchesterstucke.

And thanks to syprrr, now I always am fearing the worst when I see this thread bumped!

[ritter]

This debate with Pierre Boulez in Amsterdam some 20 years ago is very interesting. In a very relaxed tone, Boulez talks about his development as a conductor (with concrete examples of Webern--opus 10--and Debussy--Jeux--), his admiration for Ligeti, Carter, Birtwistle, etc.

The sound quality is not excellent, but the video is certainly worth viewing for anyone with an interest in Boulez's work.

http://www.youtube.com/v/xVq3ulNnWn0

[snyprrr]

And thanks to syprrr, now I always am fearing the worst when I see this thread bumped!

mmmmm

I'd LIKE to think that I'd see "it" before I got here- meaning, that the outside world would take notice and I'd see it on the Yahoo header or whatever. But, yea, every time I see this Thread bumped... gulp (or "yaaay" depending on your...)...

btw- a New Work? Come ON people,- it would be so scrubbed and "perfect"- it would sound soooooo 1973- please- no more orchestrations, piano trifles, - "Godot"? uuugggghhhhh... noNoNOOOO!!!!!!

Unless Boulez Composes a Violin Concerto at 90 I'm just not interested. I just don't believe he's got anything to say that I want to hear. Why can't we just accept that 'Repons' and 'Sur incises' IS WHAT WE GOT? "GOT"- like in past tense. He DID die. oy vey- we're not going to get anything... come on people...

I'll pull for a Violin Concerto, but otherwise, good night Petey! CONDUCT SOME XENAKIS fffs


\sorry for the rant

[Karl Henning]

Composing was always just a wing of his larger aim to Propagandize

[EigenUser]

I just read this biography on Boulez called Composer, Conductor, Enigma. What a character! There was this funny story where Boulez was recalling an argument with Stockhausen about a performance of the latter's Mixtur. Paraphrasing Boulez, "He told me that he still hasn't heard a good performance of it. I told him that this is because it isn't a very good piece."

I laughed so hard when I read that.

[Sergeant Rock]

Paraphrasing Boulez, "He told me that he still hasn't heard a good performance of it. I told him that this is because it isn't a very good piece."

Let's just hope to god that James doesn't read that. It could destroy his faith in both composers 

Sarge

[North Star]

I just read this biography on Boulez called Composer, Conductor, Enigma. What a character! There was this funny story where Boulez was recalling an argument with Stockhausen about a performance of the latter's Mixtur. Paraphrasing Boulez, "He told me that he still hasn't heard a good performance of it. I told him that this is because it isn't a very good piece."

I laughed so hard when I read that.

From the Simon Rattle series of 20th C. music LEAVING HOME (it's on Youtube, watch it if you haven't)

When asked by a string player “why do we have all these parts when surely they can't all be heard. We have rehearsed them for hours, we have practiced them for days. Why have you written them if they can't be heard?“, Boulez answered: “It's not that. It's just that if you see a tree, you don't see each individual leaf, but you can certainly see if the leaves aren't there, and I need all of you playing, I need all of the leaves.”

[EigenUser]

From the Simon Rattle series of 20th C. music LEAVING HOME (it's on Youtube, watch it if you haven't)

When asked by a string player "why do we have all these parts when surely they can't all be heard. We have rehearsed them for hours, we have practiced them for days. Why have you written them if they can't be heard?", Boulez answered: "It's not that. It's just that if you see a tree, you don't see each individual leaf, but you can certainly see if the leaves aren't there, and I need all of you playing, I need all of the leaves."

I've seen it before -- a very, very good film. Fueled my interest in Messiaen. I remember that quote from Rattle's documentary. There was also the one about Messiaen where he asked to for the orchestra to play "a little more bluish-green" or something like that.

[North Star]

I've seen it before -- a very, very good film. Fueled my interest in Messiaen. I remember that quote from Rattle's documentary. There was also the one about Messiaen where he asked to for the orchestra to play "a little more bluish-green" or something like that.

Yes, those synaesthetic guidances always crack me up, as if anyone else knows what he is talking about - even if they happen to have that form of synaesthesia, they're hardly likely to see the same colours when hearing the same notes..

[EigenUser]

Yes, those synaesthetic guidances always crack me up, as if anyone else knows what he is talking about - even if they happen to have that form of synaesthesia, they're hardly likely to see the same colours when hearing the same notes..

Last month or so I was with my friend at the piano imitating Messiaen playing a scale of really dissonant chords with my eyes closed, saying things like "Voila, c'est bleu-violet avec un peu rouge, un peu gris..." (I was exaggerating in my impersonation, but there was a similar clip of Messiaen in Rattle's documentary).

[snyprrr]

From the Simon Rattle series of 20th C. music LEAVING HOME (it's on Youtube, watch it if you haven't)

When asked by a string player "why do we have all these parts when surely they can't all be heard. We have rehearsed them for hours, we have practiced them for days. Why have you written them if they can't be heard?", Boulez answered: "It's not that. It's just that if you see a tree, you don't see each individual leaf, but you can certainly see if the leaves aren't there, and I need all of you playing, I need all of the leaves."

In this case I applaud him for not having a "Hitler Rant" and smackin' the fiddler!! How daaare he... question... a... Composer  (seriously though- what do you mean "Why?")

Composing was always just a wing of his larger aim to Propagandize

I'd muuuch rather hear Spaulding Gray do an hour of Boulezisms than hear another quantum hexachord.

[snyprrr]

Sound like the 1970s? ..  You mean the decade where he composed next to nothing and spent probably more time arguing with Stockhausen about Mixtur and talking shit about about Xenakis and how IX should have stayed in Architecture ..? And you can forget the Violin Concerto commission he received from Annie Sophie Mutter decades ago .. he's recently said "it's too late".

oh come on Petey- just Compose something NICE- maybe some nice melodies- do the "goin' back to Schubert" thing everyone ends up doing. Come on--- ya can't just write a 10 minute Violin Concerto with an impossible melody? oy

"decades ago"

"it's too late"


errrrr.... uhhh.....

It was apparently too late decades ago.


I guess when I said "70s" I really meant Berio.---- "Berio, the '70s Boulez"

[Karl Henning]

Professional Gadfly . . . ♫ It's a hard habit to break . . . .

[ritter]

THanks for posting that, James. I didn't know this video, and seeing Boulez at his most didactic is a real pleasure.

I didn't know the Donatoni piece, which is really inetersting (and more so when explained so clearly).



Regards,

[petrarch]

Boulez, 20th Century
56 minutes, 40 seconds - documentary

http://www.youtube.com/v/ddEVRvNdL1I

This is part of the 6-part Boulez XXe siècle, an outstanding and detailed survey about some of the key pieces of the 20th Century. It was this series that turned me on to contemporary music, when it came out. You can watch it in full here.