Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

Started by bhodges, January 17, 2008, 09:54:31 AM

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Niko240

I'm lucky to live close enough to Ojai, California, and enjoyed the Ojai Music Festival this year.  Saw A Pierre Dream: A Portrait of Pierre Boulez for the second time (first time in Chicago), and they also performed both Derive's, Dialogue de l'ombre double, a couple Improvisations sur Mallarmé, and Sonatine.  Steven Schick was pretty cool to watch as well.  Also some nice little interviews about Boulez and his several experiences in Ojai.  Beautiful place indeed, and amazing oranges! 

http://www.ojaifestival.org/festivals/2015-festival/2015-festival-schedule/

Not sure how much Boulez they'll do next year.  Unfortunately for me, the LAPhil doesn't program any of his music, but not many orchestras in this country do, except for the CSO.  However, I don't visit too many concert halls in the U.S., so I'm not quite sure about that. 

Mandryka

Quote from: karlhenning on June 29, 2015, 02:53:46 AM
You think Boulez's music is not sensual?

Here's a conjecture for refutation, Popper style.

He became more sensual the more he lost inspiration. Explosante-Fixe (inspired; hoorah) is not sensual; Sur incises (derivitive, boo)  is.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

EigenUser

Quote from: Mandryka on June 30, 2015, 10:11:16 PM
Here's a conjecture for refutation, Popper style.

He became more sensual the more he lost inspiration. Explosante-Fixe (inspired; hoorah) is not sensual; Sur incises (derivitive, boo)  is.
I guess I'm more interested in the less inspired stuff (though I'd beg to differ!). I love the music of Boulez that Ken so aptly described as (I paraphrase) "shards discarded by Ravel". Though, I doubt he meant it in a flattering way...

In an interview, Stockhausen said that he was once interested in the music of Boulez, but he became too "dry" for him (i.e. later works).
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Karl Henning

Quote from: Mandryka on June 30, 2015, 10:11:16 PM
Here's a conjecture for refutation, Popper style.

He became more sensual the more he lost inspiration.

What is your metric to judge loss of inspiration?  ;)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: EigenUser on July 01, 2015, 01:57:11 AM
In an interview, Stockhausen said that he was once interested in the music of Boulez, but he became too "dry" for him (i.e. later works).

They were old biddy gossips, the lot of them  8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mandryka

Quote from: karlhenning on July 01, 2015, 03:40:36 AM
What is your metric to judge loss of inspiration?  ;)

The number of exciting new ideas. The unpredictability.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Karl Henning

You understand both how questionable, and how subjective, that is?  :)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mandryka

 I'd say it was indexical, rather than subjective. Subjective makes these judgements sound neither true nor false. But I do think they have assertability conditions.

Big topic.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

James

Quote from: Mandryka on June 28, 2015, 09:37:55 PMWho in France is writing modernist music in the Boulez style today? Who picks up the mantle?

That isn't the point. Boulez has his own voice.

Artists should strive to find their own as well.
Action is the only truth

kishnevi

Quote from: Mandryka on June 30, 2015, 10:11:16 PM
Here's a conjecture for refutation, Popper style.

He became more sensual the more he lost inspiration. Explosante-Fixe (inspired; hoorah) is not sensual; Sur incises (derivitive, boo)  is.

But I find Explosante-Fixe to be sensual!!!!

Ken B

Quote from: EigenUser on July 01, 2015, 01:57:11 AM
I guess I'm more interested in the less inspired stuff (though I'd beg to differ!). I love the music of Boulez that Ken so aptly described as (I paraphrase) "shards discarded by Ravel". Though, I doubt he meant it in a flattering way...

It is an apt phrase isn't it? But, modulo the assumption that Boulez ever had inspiration, I agree with Mandryka. Explosante-fixe is at least interesting. Too sensual perhaps.  >:D

Ken B

Quote from: James on July 01, 2015, 06:05:51 AM
That isn't the point. Boulez has his own voice.

Artists should strive to find their own as well.


"Do something original." -- Wagner's advice to his heirs

Karl Henning

Quote from: Ken B on July 01, 2015, 08:19:39 AM
"Do something original." -- Wagner's advice to his heirs

Makes me wish that Wagner had said something original.

—oh, wait!  He did.  And not always to his credit  8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Quote from: Ken B on July 01, 2015, 08:19:39 AM
"Do something original." -- Wagner's advice to his heirs

Well, in an age when avantgarde, revolution and innovation reign supreme, the most original thing one can do is to be conservative.  ;D ;D ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on July 03, 2015, 03:51:21 AM
Well, in an age when avantgarde, revolution and innovation reign supreme, the most original thing one can do is to be conservative.  ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Denise Scott BrownBasically, the idea is that with everyone striving to be revolutionary, you will be most revolutionary if you try to be ordinary.

Granted, musically in the late 20th century, that resulted in some composers retreating into mere dullness . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

San Antone

Quote
Basically, the idea is that with everyone striving to be revolutionary, you will be most revolutionary if you try to be ordinary.

Which was my argument (ignored) to my kids for not getting tattoos.

::)

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Hmm, and that 80' could not fit on a single disc, eh?

Not really a complaint at the packaging inefficiency;  it does underscore just how little work there is, in a peculiar and ironic way.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

James

I'm thinking Ponthus wanted to program the material in a certain way .. you know, how each track flows from one to the next in the best possible way. This can also mean breaking things up, no overkill, no extraneous cramming of it all together, but pacing. Whatever it is .. I love the music, and it's for the price of 1 disc, so it's all good. Bring it on.
Action is the only truth