Schubert Piano Recordings

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Uchida's name came up earlier in this thread. I praised her impromptu disc and since I just acquired her disc w/ D.840 & D.894 (for cheap) I figured I'd give it a spin and pit it against some heavyweight competition: Lupu and Richter.

I find Uchida passing muster at every turn. Well done and a nice addition to my Schubert collection!

[George]

Uchida's name came up earlier in this thread. I praised her impromptu disc and since I just acquired her disc w/ D.840 & D.894 (for cheap) I figured I'd give it a spin and pit it against some heavyweight competition: Lupu and Richter.

I find Uchida passing muster at every turn. Well done and a nice addition to my Schubert collection!

Wasn't entirely sure what that phrase meant, so I looked it up:

Idiom:
pass muster
To be judged as acceptable.

After hearing Richter's 894 (his favorite Schubert sonata), I have lost interest in obtaining more performances of this work. I have the Lupu you mentioned, along with Kempff, but neither left much of an impression.   

[Dancing Divertimentian]

After hearing Richter's 894 (his favorite Schubert sonata), I have lost interest in obtaining more performances of this work. I have the Lupu you mentioned, along with Kempff, but neither left much of an impression.

Yeah, Richter is almost in a league by himself in D.894 with that extreeeeemely slowwwwwww first movement. It's held together by sheer willpower alone otherwise it'd grind right to a halt after three measly bars!

It's been so long since I've heard Kempff in this repertoire I probably shouldn't comment. Lupu I find extraordinary in Schubert and easily strides alongside Richter (Uchida, though, has earned her keep with this disc).

[Mandryka]

Uchida's name came up earlier in this thread. I praised her impromptu disc and since I just acquired her disc w/ D.840 & D.894 (for cheap) I figured I'd give it a spin and pit it against some heavyweight competition: Lupu and Richter.

I find Uchida passing muster at every turn. Well done and a nice addition to my Schubert collection!

I listened to her D960 yesterday and thought similarly -- very good. There's a sweep to it, it's dramatic without being exaggerated. Most of all the way she creates a living pulse through the whole first movement is very effective.

By the way I also listened to Schnabel. Has anyone here compared the EMI and Music and Arts masterings? I have the EMI

[George]

I listened to her D960 yesterday and thought similarly -- very good. There's a sweep to it, it's dramatic without being exaggerated. Most of all the way she creates a living pulse through the whole first movement is very effective.

By the way I also listened to Schnabel. Has anyone here compared the EMI and Music and Arts masterings? I have the EMI

I have compared the EMI and M&A Impromptus and the mastering is very close.

[Lethevich]

Agh curses! I found the Uchida box cheaply so will pick it up Thanks for the extra advocacy! Strange how I feel more compelled to be completist with Schubert piano music boxes than Beethoven ones.

[Antoine Marchand]

Strange how I feel more compelled to be completist with Schubert piano music boxes than Beethoven ones.

I am also a victim of the same statistical deviation.

[Mandryka]

Wasn't entirely sure what that phrase meant, so I looked it up:

After hearing Richter's 894 (his favorite Schubert sonata), I have lost interest in obtaining more performances of this work. I have the Lupu you mentioned, along with Kempff, but neither left much of an impression.

I agree about Richter. The performance on Philips  is an extraordinary exercise in the Richter understanding of the late sonatas. No one else, not even Afanassiev, has dared to create such a lunar landscape out of Schubert's music.

The other two which I cherish are Eduard Erdmann's and Arrau's.

The adaptability of Schubert's music is quite striking -- that this sonata can bear the treatment that Richter gives it, and the treatment that Erdmann gives it,  is quite remarkable. You get similar things on record with the 9th symphony. Is Schubert's music the most adaptable ever written?

[mjwal]

That was a very helpful mail, Mandryka - I thought, hey, he's got the wrong sonata, Erdmann did D.664 and the last three on those EMI discs (plus D.899 and Schumann Op.12), but I googled and found it on YouTube. This will be my next Schubert listening session, for sure. Up to now I have cherished three renditions of D.894: the above-mentioned Richter, transcendent, Howard Shelley's rather beautiful fortepiano version (Amon Ra 1995 - surely one of the earliest Schubert recordings on a period piano) and the somewhat perverse superscription by Dieter Schnebel (Schubert-Phantasie - also on YouTube - is nothing sacred?), which is up there with Zender's Winterreise and Schumann Fantasie in C, which it however preceded, in the "German Composers Make The Oldies New Stakes" (Webern and Schoenberg having started the thing off). But Erdmann is my nomination for THE canonical Schubert pianist, so I am all agog.

[Mandryka]

That was a very helpful mail, Mandryka - I thought, hey, he's got the wrong sonata, Erdmann did D.664 and the last three on those EMI discs (plus D.899 and Schumann Op.12), but I googled and found it on YouTube. This will be my next Schubert listening session, for sure. Up to now I have cherished three renditions of D.894: the above-mentioned Richter, transcendent, Howard Shelley's rather beautiful fortepiano version (Amon Ra 1995 - surely one of the earliest Schubert recordings on a period piano) and the somewhat perverse superscription by Dieter Schnebel (Schubert-Phantasie - also on YouTube - is nothing sacred?), which is up there with Zender's Winterreise and Schumann Fantasie in C, which it however preceded, in the "German Composers Make The Oldies New Stakes" (Webern and Schoenberg having started the thing off). But Erdmann is my nomination for THE canonical Schubert pianist, so I am all agog.

There are some splendid other things from Erdmann -- some Haydn Variations and Brahms Intermezzi. And someone sent me a Beethoven Concerto 3 recently which I haven;t listened to. Let me know if you want this stuff.

I didn't know he recorded Schumann's Fantasiestücke.

Dieter Schnebel's name came up recently as an example of s....l....o....w. I've never heard him -- I'll check him out for sure.

You really prefer Erdmann to Schnabel in Schubert? You could be right.

[mjwal]

There are some splendid other things from Erdmann -- some Haydn Variations and Brahms Intermezzi. And someone sent me a Beethoven Concerto 3 recently which I haven;t listened to. Let me know if you want this stuff.

I didn't know he recorded Schumann's Fantasiestücke.

Dieter Schnebel's name came up recently as an example of s....l....o....w. I've never heard him -- I'll check him out for sure.

You really prefer Erdmann to Schnabel in Schubert? You could be right.

I have the Haydn - my favourite recording of the f-minor variations - and the Brahms, but the Beethoven would be interesting.
Erdmann, Schnabel, Petri, Scherchen moved in the same musical circles in Berlin, in which Busoni was a name to conjure with:
"The disappointments Busoni faced by Spring 1920 contrasted sharply with the accumulation of positive responses he was receiving from Germany. In March Breitkopf & Härtel renewed his publishing contract, and Hermann Scherchen purchased an advertisement in «Signale» entreating Busoni to return. Pianist Edward Erdmann, a rising star of Berlin's avant-garde, wrote Busoni an emphatic letter, exclaiming: «Oh Master, you are the spiritual father of all youth, the prophet of our desires...and so I will be very egotistical and express the following wish: come back soon to Berlin! This wish must be fulfilled!» Shortly thereafter Scherchen himself pleaded with Busoni..."
http://www.rodoni.ch/busoni/levitz/levitz.html
"In Berlin Erdmann met and was invited to the homes of many prominent musicians including Arthur Nikisch, Ferruccio Busoni, Richard Strauss and Artur Schnabel whose compositions Erdmann championed, giving the first performance of Schnabel's Piano Sonata." http://www.classicsonline.com/artistbio/Eduard_Erdmann/
So Erdmann and Schnabel were of the same aesthetic persuasion, as it were, and it is perhaps invidious to "prefer" one to the other, but I do get more sense of crisis out of the Erdmann Schubert recordings. I do wish he had recorded late Beethoven, and that a record company had got him to record in the 30s.Ah well, we do have Petri's Opp. 106, 109, 110 and 111.
The Schumann is in that German EMI LP box that came out in the 70s. It is lovely in my memory, but I haven't listened to it for a while.

[Mandryka]

I have the Haydn - my favourite recording of the f-minor variations - and the Brahms, but the Beethoven would be interesting.
Erdmann, Schnabel, Petri, Scherchen moved in the same musical circles in Berlin, in which Busoni was a name to conjure with:
"The disappointments Busoni faced by Spring 1920 contrasted sharply with the accumulation of positive responses he was receiving from Germany. In March Breitkopf & Härtel renewed his publishing contract, and Hermann Scherchen purchased an advertisement in «Signale» entreating Busoni to return. Pianist Edward Erdmann, a rising star of Berlin's avant-garde, wrote Busoni an emphatic letter, exclaiming: «Oh Master, you are the spiritual father of all youth, the prophet of our desires...and so I will be very egotistical and express the following wish: come back soon to Berlin! This wish must be fulfilled!» Shortly thereafter Scherchen himself pleaded with Busoni..."
http://www.rodoni.ch/busoni/levitz/levitz.html
"In Berlin Erdmann met and was invited to the homes of many prominent musicians including Arthur Nikisch, Ferruccio Busoni, Richard Strauss and Artur Schnabel whose compositions Erdmann championed, giving the first performance of Schnabel's Piano Sonata." http://www.classicsonline.com/artistbio/Eduard_Erdmann/
So Erdmann and Schnabel were of the same aesthetic persuasion, as it were, and it is perhaps invidious to "prefer" one to the other, but I do get more sense of crisis out of the Erdmann Schubert recordings. I do wish he had recorded late Beethoven, and that a record company had got him to record in the 30s.Ah well, we do have Petri's Opp. 106, 109, 110 and 111.
The Schumann is in that German EMI LP box that came out in the 70s. It is lovely in my memory, but I haven't listened to it for a while.

Interesting, I guess one thing that Schanbel and EE had in common   is their advocacy of 20th century music. You have Erdmann playing Krenk I guess.

I've never been able to get on with EE's D960 -- fast and nervous. Is that what you mean by "sense of crisis"?  In some ways EE's reminds me of how Haskil plays it (which I also don't like). I'm going to listen again to Haskil and Erdmann in that sonata and try to understand them better. Thanks.

I'm talking about the EE D960 on Tahra -- not the live one on Orfeo, which I have but have never played.

That Schumann has never been on CD as far as I can see. When I was looking for it I did find this record which has a Haydn Sonata which I would like to hear

[mjwal]

 Erdmann's Schubert is more knife-edgy than Haskil, IMO - but will have to listen to hers when I rejoin the greater part of my collection - and of course she didn't play D.959, my favourite.
I think I have the Krenek, not sure.
I'll shut up about Erdmann after this - just to say that if anyone wants to read the fascinating story of his life, musical activities etc, and can read German, this is a gift:
http://www.carl-schirren-gesellschaft.de/JO2-Bobeth.pdf
You might even look at it for the sake of the paintings by Nolde and the etching by Heckel . Erdmann became Nolde's father-in-law. He was also a piano teacher who liked to use figurative language to inspire his pupils; here he is describing the middle section of the slow movement of D.960:
"The men's choir of a small town begins the concert in deep full tones. Then an aging lady singer takes over - her voice is not so beautiful any more but she is a marvellously expressive artist. She is accompanied rather stiffly by a mediocre pianist." It reminds me irresistibly of the fact that Egon Petri, another adept of Busoni in Berlin, taught Victor Borge in the 20s.

[George]

Erdmann's Schubert is more knife-edgy than Haskil, IMO - but will have to listen to hers when I rejoin the greater part of my collection - and of course she didn't play D.959, my favourite.

The D 959 is one of my favorites. I have many interpretations of this one, but Sokolov (live) is definitely my favorite. Surprisingly, I really enjoy Brendel in this work (at least the live one that I have), as I usually don't like his stuff. Haskil does little for me in Schubert, though I love her Mozart. 

...here he is describing the middle section of the slow movement of D.960:
"The men's choir of a small town begins the concert in deep full tones. Then an aging lady singer takes over - her voice is not so beautiful any more but she is a marvellously expressive artist. She is accompanied rather stiffly by a mediocre pianist." It reminds me irresistibly of the fact that Egon Petri, another adept of Busoni in Berlin, taught Victor Borge in the 20s.

That was cool, thanks for sharing it. 

[Todd]

D959...urprisingly, I really enjoy Brendel in this work (at least the live one that I have), as I usually don't like his stuff.

Brendel is superb at D959, live or studio, and I'm hardly a big Brendel fan. 

[Mandryka]

Brendel once wrote in the New York Review of Books

"Which elements in the course of the B flat sonata would justify the emergence of the transitional bars in question? Where are they announced? The transition is not to be compared to the irrational explosion in the Andante of the A major sonata: that has a psychological connection to the bleak melancholy of the movement's beginning, as well as to the chromatic episodes of the preceding Allegro. By contrast, the transitional bars of the B flat sonata upset the magnificent coherence of his movement, whose motivic material seems quite unconnected to the new syncopated, jerky rhythm. Is the material or atmosphere of the transition taken up anywhere in the later movements? Should its irate dynamic outburst rob the development's grand dramatic climax of its singularity? Most painful to me, however, is that the trill, which is so important to the understanding of the sonata's main theme, is to be played fortissimo, while elsewhere in the movement remaining remote and mysterious. Schubert's first draft still presents the trill, after a relatively brief exposition, in pianissimo."

One idea is that the new music in the repeat is a sort of random outburst and renders the movement (sonata?) incoherent.

From my point of view the problem with the repeat comes about because it engenders from an imbalance in the structure of the sonata as a whole. III and IV are just too light compared with the first half -- III especially If the first movement were treated as an entity in itself then I would have no problem with its randomness. In fact I would regard it as an aspect of the music's modernity.

Schnabel emphasises a sort of bleak rumble in the bass in the opening music of the sonata, which seems to me to be a pre echo of the irrational explosion in the new music of the repeat. Paradoxically Schnabel doesn't take the repeat so go figure, as you Americans say.

Some of the problem can be avoided by making III more weighty than normal -- this is what Valtery Afanassiev does.

[Herman]

amusing how you keep saying Rubinstein "banged" on the keyboard.

It's even more amusing when you say Rubinstein did so, in contrast to Horowitz and Richter.

[Mandryka]

A couple of late  (1987 I think) Howowitz performances of Schubert. If this is banging then I like banging.

Impromptu in  G flat major D899 No.3
http://www.youtube.com/v/L6_SbflSwAg

I love the calmness, eerie-ness, and the voicing. The slower than normal tenpo seems to work really well. Listen out for the Vienna Church bells in the distance in the second half -- making the recording even more spiritual 

Here's another one I like a lot

Impromptu in B-flat Major, Op.142/3
http://www.youtube.com/v/8YWcVO9Mncw

As far as Rubinstein is concerned, his slow movement from D960 is particularly beautiful I think. Is there really banging going on?

http://www.youtube.com/v/w7kAsyUy9QE

Re Horowitz the worst D960 I have ever heard, to my ears, was his live one at Carnegie Hall. Even his huge fan base haven't put it on youtube as far has I can see.

[George]

Yes, it really is. Surprisingly classical in conception, as Horowitz never looses track of the overall structure of the piece. This interpretation is classical also in that Horowitz does not overemphasize the affect - using the structure of the music to contain the emotivity, until it seeps spontaneously onto the piano.



The late recordings of Horowitz (not just his DG recording of Schubert, everything) don't seem so good to me as his mid-life performances because late in life Horowitz lost his touch - banging on a piano....

I completely agree. I had written off Horowitz, as I had heard mostly his late stuff. Then I happened to hear some of the early recordings from the 50s, 40s and earlier. They are excellent! I will seek out that early D 960. What year was that performance? EDIT -  I see that it is a 1953 Carnegie Hall Performance.

There is an early gem by Schubert I'd like to mention. As this is a Schubert thread it should be ok? That's his 3rd piano Sonata in E minor, D.566. I believe it would fit well on a CD (or a concert programme) with Sonatas of Haydn, and with Beethoven's Op 31/1, which leads to Op. 109, just as Schubert's D.566 leads to the Wanderer-Fantaisie. Richter's lacks a certain je ne sais quoi - playfulness perhaps? - especially in bringing about the lovely theme that first appears at the hundreth second of the "moderato" part. But this recording is still clear & recommendable. Funny thing about Richter is, he looked rough but his playing is not necessarily rough - very subtle touch and phrasing, in fact (at times) - unlike Rubinstein, who was of frail stature but banged like a brute on that keyboard.

I have heard these 566s by Richter:

1964 Aldeburgh - Living Stage and Music and Arts (this is your AS version, no?)
1978 Moscow - Brilliant
1978 Munich - Victor/Japan

and I like the 1978 Moscow recording the best:

The timings here were almost identical, but the sound varied greatly. Luckily the one with the best sound, Brilliant Classics, also has the best performance. The main difference, performance wise, is that the central movement is more lively, more playful than in the other performances. As for the 1964 performance, the Music and Arts has better sound than the Living stereo, though each are OOP and hard to find.

I did a survey of the released Schubert Sonatas by Richter. If you are interested, there is more info here.

[The new erato]

I completely agree. I had written off Horowitz, as I had heard mostly his late stuff. Then I happened to hear some of the early recordings from the 50s, 40s and earlier. They are excellent! I will seek out that early D 960. What year was that performance? EDIT -  I see that it is a 1953 Carnegie Hall Performance.

This item seems to be included in this box which are to be released in a couple of weeks.