Brahms Solo Piano Works

[Josquin des Prez]

BTW, i know this is about the solo piano music but i just acquired a recording of Solomon playing the d minor concerto, conducted by Kubelik, which is pretty amazing. My favored recording of this work as of yet.

[Sergeant Rock]

Well, i've been exploring some of the recordings mentioned here....Arrau...Katchen...Gilels...Zimerman...Kovacevich...Perahia...Gould...Pogorelich..Lupu, maybe...

You're the world's toughest critic. Nobody satisfies you 

I see you  skipped Hélène Grimaud. Not surprising given how misogynistic you are. Even if you actually liked her Brahms (she's recorded the late works twice...they mean that much to her) I doubt you'd admit it 

Sarge

[Josquin des Prez]

You're the world's toughest critic. Nobody satisfies you 

I see you  skipped Hélène Grimaud. Not surprising given how misogynistic you are. Even if you actually liked her Brahms (she's recorded the late works twice...they mean that much to her) I doubt you'd admit it 

Sarge

I heard her Bach. I found it to be dreadful. Nothing to do with my "misogyny", but i know its pointless to escape the charge, so believe what you want to believe. Feminism and other forms of modern relativism are the least of my concerns this days. Not after discovering the works of Rene Guenon and Frithjof Schuon. I've long since transcended neo-Platonism, and i would include Weininger in the latter, due to the new vistas opened by their work.

That said, anybody who ends up being mentioned on Oprah is going to have an hard time with me, female or either wise.

[SonicMan46]

I am very happy so far with the Katchen set, of which I just received. Also, I've been very impressed with Valery Afanassiev's amazing disk of Brahms late solo piano works...

Hey Leo - BOY, a quote of a post I left back in 2008 - yikes! 

Well since that time I have picked up the 6-CD box below from Brilliant w/ 5 different pianists performing these works, including Helene Grimaud & Hakon Austbo - will plan a repeat listen in the near future; the price is unbeatable! Dave

[Sammy]

I heard her Bach. I found it to be dreadful.

I'll assume you're talking about Grimaud's disc containing a keyboard concerto, a few WTC pairings and some transcriptions.  Can't say she's my cup of tea, but I find her Bach satisfying.  She's better suited for Brahms.

[George]

SO how about dem Brahms solo works? 

[Karl Henning]

Good morning, George! Just now digging Håkon Austbø in the Op.79 Rhapsodies . . . .

[SonicMan46]

SO how about dem Brahms solo works? 

Hi George - yes, thought that my eyes were going out of focus in this thread, so agree let's return to the point of the thread! 

Currently listening to the first two discs from the box below - 5 different pianists; short comments reprinted HERE, for those interested. 

[Madiel]

If Tchaikovsky was not interested in Brahms, it may well be because he was striving for an entirely different use of the musical language.

Well, yes. However, you've just implied that there isn't a single "correct" thing that music is aiming for and I have this nasty feeling this smacks of relativism...

(PS I love Brahms, hence clicking on this thread. I don't particularly love Tchaikovsky, hence not clicking on any Tchaikovsky threads yet, although the work I've heard is fine.  I draw conclusions about my own tastes from this, and what I'm looking for from music, rather than any conclusions about where God Almighty will place each of them on the official ranking table some people think he will reveal at the end of time.)

[Mandryka]

Arrau. Don't like him much. I have the same issue with his Beethoven set, i find his style plodding and suffocating. He was great in his younger years but his abilities didn't age all that well. IMHO at any rate.

Try to hear the live Handel Variations on Ermitage or Haensler. The studio Pagaini VAriations is one of my favourite recordings: I hate the virtuoso style of early and middle period Michelangeli. Arrau is an antedote -- and there's tremendous integrity to the performance.

Katchen. His heart is in the right place, but i think the music is much too complicated for him. He gets into the right spirit of things and has an accurate sense of rhythm (which is probably why he does so well in the chamber pieces). Alas, he handles difficult passages with the delicacy and sophistication of a charging bull. Way too much detail is lost by this approach.

That's true -- have you heard his record of the second piano trio with Suk and Starker?

Gilels. The man seemed to have struggled for years to find a style that was technically articulated to the extreme without being any less artistic for it. And what does he do once he finds it? He dies! The nerve. That said, i don't think his approach here works as well as it did in his late Beethoven, but he still manages to pull off a good compromise between technical perfection and artistic expression. Wish he had lived long enough to record more.

Which records led you to this view of his development?

By the way, be sure to hear Schnabel's Brahms intermezzi, and Moiseiwitsch's Haendel Variations, and Richter's Op 116-119.

[Josquin des Prez]

That's true -- have you heard his record of the second piano trio with Suk and Starker?

I have the whole set. Its very good, but i tend to like his violin sonatas better, always with Suk. Starker's take on the cello sonatas is also pretty definitive. Right now i'm actually enjoying the Wanderer in the trio. They are sort of like Florestan used to be at the time they recorded their Beethoven. Bright and dynamic without losing any detail in the process.

Which records led you to this view of his development?

I can't say with exactness but i think the most glaring sign he was searching for a particular style is demonstrated by the sheer stylistic variety of his early records. Sometimes its hard to believe it is the same man playing in all of them. Then later in his career we can see a certain level of uniformity making itself felt.

Also, if you watch some of the live performances he recorded during the same time he was making the Beethoven set it feels like you are listening straight out of the studio version of a given piece. Considering how incredibly detailed his studio recordings are, particularly those of the late sonatas, it is remarkable that he was able to achieve the same identical effect live without any help from studio magic and post editing.

[George]

I have had a challenging time with much of Brahms solo piano music, mostly because I find that he places beautifully introverted works alongside brusque, extroverted ones. As an experiment, I have burned two 80 minute CD-Rs, one with "mellow" works on it, the other with more "brusque" stuff. I suspect that listening to them this way may make them easier for me to enjoy. I used works from the Katchen set, specifically: The Op. 9 Schumann Variations (is this an underrated, underrecorded work, or what?) and Opuses 10, 76, 79, 116-119.

I'll listen to these two disks in the next few days and report back.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

.....mostly because I find that he places beautifully introverted works alongside brusque, extroverted ones.

Sounds like Chopin.

[Mandryka]

I have had a challenging time with much of Brahms solo piano music, mostly because I find that he places beautifully introverted works alongside brusque, extroverted ones. As an experiment, I have burned two 80 minute CD-Rs, one with "mellow" works on it, the other with more "brusque" stuff. I suspect that listening to them this way may make them easier for me to enjoy. I used works from the Katchen set, specifically: The Op. 9 Schumann Variations (is this an underrated, underrecorded work, or what?) and Opuses 10, 76, 79, 116-119.

I'll listen to these two disks in the next few days and report back.

Op 21/1's OK too. Richter's playing that (nicely) on youtube. Does anyone know if it's been published on CD?

Steve Emerson digitised  Beveridge Webster playing op 9. It's good. I think he put it on youtube but I expect he'll let you have the files.  Also Mikhael Rudy's record on spotify.


I'm not sure about what you say about introvert and extrovert, I need to think about it. I'm not sure to what extent the juxtaposition is just part of the Brahms thing, like with Schumann. Also I suspect that some performances  overplay the mood differences by making the calmer music too calm.

Oh here's the wonderful  Richter Op 21/1

http://www.youtube.com/v/9ZHbvEBUwPs

[amw]

Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck

references: Petri, Arrau [1963], Yudina, Schiff [1974]

[Drasko]

Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck

references: Petri, Arrau [1963], Yudina, Schiff [1974]

https://www.youtube.com/v/lEiMC3afXyc

[amw]

Thank, much appreciated

a very good indeed

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck

That Pletnev sounds wonderful! Thanks, Drasko.

Since the Pletnev isn't commercially available you might try Ivo Janssen. Janssen's take isn't as "visceral" as Pletnev but it has its good qualities. One advantage is the disc is filled with other variations: the Paganini and Schumann.



https://www.youtube.com/v/YU-VCW0C4HU

[asin]B000N7VPYU[/asin]

[Mandryka]

Can anyone recommend a Handel Variations in good sound that isn't bland as fuuuuuuuck

references: Petri, Arrau [1963], Yudina, Schiff [1974]

Ernst Levy.


I heard Pletnev play it in London, and I can let you have a decent transfer of the Wigmore Hall concert if you want.

[MickeyBoy]

I don't play piano, so I'm constantly surprised by the extent to which the score underdetermines the performance. Contrast

Ignaz Tiegerman in Op 118/5 (which I only discovered yesterday )

thanks, Mandryka. This Tiegerman 188 Nr 5 is a great joy.